Alternate Core Documents

[TyrannisUmbra]

I just ran into something that isn't covered in the rules regarding stealth.

Silent Gallop is a thing that exists, but the stealth rules don't define penalties for running while sneaking. Additionally, this leaves a question of whether or not a pegasus flying at normal flight speed counts as 'running' for the purposes of sneaking without the Silent Gallop perk or not, since in all cases they will be moving at equal to or higher than their sprint speed, but it is the 'slow' flight speed.

I kinda want some thoughts on this, but mostly I wanted to bring this to Kkat's attention so some definitions can be added.

[Viewing_Glass]

Hrm... if we are defining running for the purposes of sneaking and the like, we might also want to throw in some suggested rules to prevent a pony from running at a sprint all the time. My thought was an END check every minute, made with an additional -1 penalty for every minute spent sprinting past the first. If you fail your check, you get winded and need to spend twice the time you spent sprinting getting your breath back.

As for Silent Gallop, I would say moving more than half your regular ground speed means you take a -10 on your sneak check. It does make sneaking around in the air more difficult, but the check isn't too penalizing for a pegasus that wants to not take the perk.

[TyrannisUmbra]

Hrm... if we are defining running for the purposes of sneaking and the like, we might also want to throw in some suggested rules to prevent a pony from running at a sprint all the time. My thought was an END check every minute, made with an additional -1 penalty for every minute spent sprinting past the first. If you fail your check, you get winded and need to spend twice the time you spent sprinting getting your breath back.

As for Silent Gallop, I would say moving more than half your regular ground speed means you take a -10 on your sneak check. It does make sneaking around in the air more difficult, but the check isn't too penalizing for a pegasus that wants to not take the perk.

From what I'd thought, normal ground speed is walking speed, ie the speed you get when pressing and holding shift in fallout 3/NV. Sprint being the equivalent to your speed when not holding shift (Since the game counts this as running). Otherwise, speeds are pretty damn slow for what they represent. I think I remember doing the math, and sprint averaged out to something like what you'd expect average running speed to be IRL?

[Viewing_Glass]

Possibly. I do remember sprint dropping your AP and eventually you would have to walk to recover it. That might have been a mod, though.

[Ghostpony]

A question about Speed Burst; this alters the ap cost of a pegasus movement, so that is something can keep up indefinitely? If so distance covered over prolonged flight becomes pretty insane.

[Mathwyn]

Not to mention we haven't addressed the absolutely physics breaking speed pegasi can move at. Y'know like how a 10/10 END/AGI Pegasi with FR 4 and a couple of buffs can hit Mach 2 with no negative consequences whatsoever. Thanqol should be able to back me up on the math I think.

My group has sat down and done the math a couple of times and it is absolutely insane. Even by pony standards. So far all my players have been sensible enough not to try and abuse it, but it's still there.

[TyrannisUmbra]

Not to mention we haven't addressed the absolutely physics breaking speed pegasi can move at. Y'know like how a 10/10 END/AGI Pegasi with FR 4 and a couple of buffs can hit Mach 2 with no negative consequences whatsoever. Thanqol should be able to back me up on the math I think.

My group has sat down and done the math a couple of times and it is absolutely insane. Even by pony standards. So far all my players have been sensible enough not to try and abuse it, but it's still there.

Well, as Flight 4 says in its description, "Sweet fucking Celestia soldier, you should have been in the Wonderbolts!" I'm pretty sure that speed is WAD, because Rainbow Dash.

[Viewing_Glass]

Not to mention we haven't addressed the absolutely physics breaking speed pegasi can move at. Y'know like how a 10/10 END/AGI Pegasi with FR 4 and a couple of buffs can hit Mach 2 with no negative consequences whatsoever. Thanqol should be able to back me up on the math I think.

My group has sat down and done the math a couple of times and it is absolutely insane. Even by pony standards. So far all my players have been sensible enough not to try and abuse it, but it's still there.

Ok. Now, I'm curious what those couple of buffs are, but I think I can pull some guesses. Ok, let's assume the pegasi has Alter Physiology, at Expert, and Spirit of Winds, at Expert (as cast by a Unicorn).

For maximum distance and speed, let's assume the pegasus is charging (when I originally wrote out the formulas several months ago, I used Sprint) and that the GM is silly enough to allow a pegasus to charge at a target they can't see (Pegasus Player: 'I charge!' GM: 'Ok...'.

So, with Speed Burst a Charge costs 5 AP. A pegasus with Expert Alter Physiology has 91 AP to spend. This means they have 14 Charge actions they can make. Combine with the two free move actions (which aren't charge or sprints, since the Spirit of Winds specifically calls for move actions) means that in 6 seconds, a pegasi covers a lot of ground. How much ground? 4,320 yards in 6 seconds. If they can keep this up over a minute, that nets 43200 yards a minute, if they can keep this up over an hour that means 2,592,000 yards an hour, or 1472.73 miles per hour.

Alright... but the speed of sound is 761.21 miles per hour at sea level, which means yes, it is possible to break mach 2 with a 10 in END and AGI, two expert level spells from two different spell sets, and a GM that is letting you use charge to cover ground (instead of using Sprint, which is what Sprint is designed for).

Now, the same numbers with Sprint:

15 AP for two Sprint actions means you can make 12 sprint actions and two move actions for a total of 3744 yards per 6 seconds, 37440 yards per minute, 2246400 yards per hour, or 1276 miles per hour. This comes out to Mach 1.68.

Crazy fast. However, if your players really want a pegasus to get from point A to point B which involves a unicorn using 80 strain (60 if zen cast), which comes out to roughly (assuming you have a unicorn with a 10 END and 10 INT) a little under a quarter of their strain (almost a sixth of their strain if zen casting)... well, the system is all about making friends to let you do things that the characters, in no way, could do before. If a unicorn is willing to do that, well... not sure what to tell you.

However, when I say a formula calls for a multiplier of 1.8, it probably means the formula should use 1.8. >.>;

[Mathwyn]

For maximum distance and speed, let's assume the pegasus is charging (when I originally wrote out the formulas several months ago, I used Sprint) and that the GM is silly enough to allow a pegasus to charge at a target they can't see (Pegasus Player: 'I charge!' GM: 'Ok...'.

Unfortunately the charge rules don't specify the need for a target. Maybe we should add in a "needs a target in line of sight" requirement?

Now, the same numbers with Sprint:

15 AP for two Sprint actions means you can make 12 sprint actions and two move actions for a total of 3744 yards per 6 seconds, 37440 yards per minute, 2246400 yards per hour, or 1276 miles per hour. This comes out to Mach 1.68.

Crazy fast. However, if your players really want a pegasus to get from point A to point B which involves a unicorn using 80 strain (60 if zen cast), which comes out to roughly (assuming you have a unicorn with a 10 END and 10 INT) a little under a quarter of their strain (almost a sixth of their strain if zen casting)... well, the system is all about making friends to let you do things that the characters, in no way, could do before. If a unicorn is willing to do that, well... not sure what to tell you.

Honestly the problem I'm having is less that they can actually achieve these speeds but that RAW, even when sprinting there is a) no acceleration required, b) they can turn on a dime, c) essentially no negative consequences. Some of these are simply a function of how this system handles movement, I don't expect it to model acceleration etc. But it just rubs me the wrong way something fierce.

As for the strain required, if our party have no significant threats in a day, that much strain is barely worth noting.

I do also think that to be in line with the show the ability to achieve speeds that can breach the sound barrier should be limited to a wonderbolt manuever/flight rank 5. That works on the assumption that the Sonic Rainboom was achieved by breaching the sound barrier though.

[Viewing_Glass]

True. My original numbers calculated using Rainbow Dash having a 9 AGI and a 7 END (It made the math simple). I wasn't calculating based off of a player deciding to maximize AGI and END (And as a note, we really shouldn't be calculating using that. If player wants to have to 10 stats, they have to pay one way or another). In addition, I was basing the numbers on multiplying speed by Flight Rank x 1.8, instead of the 2 being used now.

But yes, There should be rules for turning/momentum.