Earth Pony Magic: Innovation

[Thanqol]

Two new Inventions - Spanner in the Works and Prismatic Lens - and a new Perk are added for review.

[Tankenstein_PhD]

At a glance, Spanner in the Works and Prismatic Lens sound good.

And I get what your explanation about why you want the stuff to work this way now. Admittedly my experience with the system as-is is a bit limited, so the other racial specs certainly looked like they made characters more powerful rather than giving them more options. I admit that I was probably wrong, though.

On the issue of what SPECIAL stats the points should be derived from: Silverlight has a point, since invention is a mental exercise characters with high INT should probably be best at it. I'd even go so far as to say that INT should be the only stat for it. For unicorns, END makes a bit of sense because casting spells for them is actually physically taxing (as per FOE). Being tough, however, doesn't really make you any better at inventing things. If you really want a second stat to base this on, PER might actually be best (sharp eyed characters will be better at noticing things that can be tinkered with, maybe?).

Admittedly the reason I threw STR out there is because I think it's currently undervalued as a stat. However, I agree that it actually doesn't have much place here. That should be the topic of a different thread.

[Thanqol]

At a glance, Spanner in the Works and Prismatic Lens sound good.

And I get what your explanation about why you want the stuff to work this way now. Admittedly my experience with the system as-is is a bit limited, so the other racial specs certainly looked like they made characters more powerful rather than giving them more options. I admit that I was probably wrong, though.

Most of the time, no. There are a few straight buffs (even Fluttershy can get some mileage out of Dodge and Weave, the entire Imbuing spellset in the Unicorn list) but for the most part there's plenty of tradeoffs.

On the issue of what SPECIAL stats the points should be derived from: Silverlight has a point, since invention is a mental exercise characters with high INT should probably be best at it. I'd even go so far as to say that INT should be the only stat for it. For unicorns, END makes a bit of sense because casting spells for them is actually physically taxing (as per FOE). Being tough, however, doesn't really make you any better at inventing things. If you really want a second stat to base this on, PER might actually be best (sharp eyed characters will be better at noticing things that can be tinkered with, maybe?).

Admittedly the reason I threw STR out there is because I think it's currently undervalued as a stat. However, I agree that it actually doesn't have much place here. That should be the topic of a different thread.

I admit that I'm currently charmed by the prospect of Int+Strength and I'll have to be argued out of it.


New invention: Steam bikes! The speed buff is the equivalent of Flight Rank 2 on the ground and there's always a spot in the setting for biker gangers.

[Tankenstein_PhD]

Well, if you're set on INT + STR then you could justify it by saying that a lot of these modifications take a bit elbow grease to put together. Not a very solid justification, IMO, but you can try it.

Steam bikes: love it. And there is actually some justification for restoring some pre-war vehicles in Fallout lore. I never played it, but I heard that in FO2 you could rebuild a pre-war car and use it to get around the Wasteland. And every Wasteland should probably have an expy of Lord Humongous and his gang.

[Dimestream]

I'm definitely liking some of the ideas put forward here. But the problem is that a lot of these seem more like schematics ideas than 'make out of nothing for IP' items. Especially for some of the items Tankenstein was coming up with.

Back to my MacGyver idea: this IP idea shouldn't let you manifest stuff out of nothing like Unicorn magic does. Instead, it should let you use the most unlikely and seemingly impossible materials to accomplish your purposes. You want to restart a generator with only two grasshoppers, a rubberband, two inches of string, and a gob of spit? Call the earth pony!

Also, how the hay are you providing the momentum to launch the junk cannon's projectiles? Please don't say magic. I am of the opinion that Earth Pony Magic should be used more for construction and ingenuity, not for offensive combat purpose.

[EDIT: Since you welcomed more ideas, I've written up my own ideas based on your creation. I think it meshes my own thoughts nicely with what you've already thrown down.]

[Dimestream]

Innovation System: Dimestream's (suggested) Revision

* Innovation Points equal to [Level+(Charisma+Intelligence)/2]. Earth ponies build and maintain their inventions as much through force of personality as they do cleverness. (And this makes it different from Pegasi in a way that makes sense.)

All Earth Ponies can use Basic Innovations at level one and up. Having the Random trait precludes you from using Innovations.

Basic Innovations:

A basic innovation isn't something terribly complicated or amazing, just a novel use for an everyday item or items. A basic innovation has few moving parts, and is seldom, if ever electrically or magically powered. A Basic innovation may also be able to cause something not normally intended to explode to do so, making booby traps for the unsuspecting (though an Explosives check might still be needed to conceal the tampering). To make a simple item out of scraps or junk costs 2 IP (more or fewer at GM's discretion). This hastily-created item has the Fragile quality, have half the HP of a normal item of its type, and only functions for (Cha+Int)/2 minutes, after which it falls apart, and the materials used in its construction become unusable. What can be made... is up to the player!

Examples of basic innovations:
* A slingshot
* Temporarily stealthy slippers
* A door-jammer
* A makeshift light filter to avoid being blinded by bright lights
* A harmless but noisy mechanical distraction

Advanced Innovations:

Advanced innovations are the bread-and-butter of the MacGyver Earth Pony. Disassembling existing common tech, jamming the works up, making sturdier and handier gadgets, and even tampering with equipment on the fly are all Advanced innovations. The Innovator can now create unique temporary items as at basic, with the following differences. Other items than scrap can now be used as components, with added effects. The created items cost 3 IP, last for (Int+Cha)/2 hours, and can have one or more moving parts and/or electric power. In addition, there are several unique uses for Innovation, some of which could turn the tide of combat.

Examples of Advanced Innovations

* An easily-concealed Zip Gun
* An electrical mine made from a toaster
* A jukebox booby-trap
* Simple vehicles like carts

Bonus Innovations

Other things would go here, like some of the unique uses Thanquol and others have come up with, like

Siege Works: 1IP per 10ft square

For 1IP and one minute's work an Earth Pony can dig a ten foot trench or create a ten foot mound of dirt. Working with stone doubles the time and cost, working with metal increases it by a factor of 5. Sufficient quantities of the appropriate resource are necessary. Multiple ponies working together can quickly erect castles or other fortifications.

Spanner In The Works: 3IP +1IP per size
Nothing's safe when an Earth Pony is around. An Earth Pony can shut down or jam basic electronic systems or automated process, such as an automatic door or a jukebox, by messing around with it's (sic) inner workings. This takes the normal five minutes.

This damage can be undone by any Earth Pony spending the same amount of time and IP to fix it up.

For that one, I'd add that any non-Earth Pony can undo the damage too, but only with a Very Hard Mechanics check (-30). And note that it requires no materials, only tools. And note 'minimum 3 IP.'

Other non-item suggestions appreciated!

Master Innovations

The pinnacle of Earth Pony engineering? Nope. That's done with a workshop and a drafting table. But these life hacks, jury-rigs, and mechanical cheats are what give Earth Ponies an edge against their more magical counterparts. Master Innovations can be fully complex and electrically powered, and some even incorporate elements of magic in addition to unique or difficult materials. They cost 4 IP to create, and last (Cha+Int)/2 hours. They no longer have the Fragile quality. In addition, if the Master Innovator dedicates the IP used to create the item, the item remains together and functional for as long as the IP remains, or until the item is destroyed.

Examples of Master Innovations

* Rigging the console of an Enclave Cloud Raptor to be controlled by an Earth Pony instead of Pegasi
* Adding flight capability to a steam-powered car or wagon, or even creating a complex vehicle from scratch.
* Making an anti-aircraft gun out of a half-dozen grasshoppers, six inches of string, and an old pair of horseshoes
* Pretty much anything else, really. Sky's the limit once you hit this level.

Bonus Innovations

* Technical Troglodyte: By spending 2x the normal IP, Spanner in the Works functions instantly.

* Earth Mover: For 1.5x IP, you can move earth as per Siege Works in a matter of Rounds rather than Minutes. One full round allows 10FT of earth to be moved.

* Old World Secrets: The GM may allow you to rediscover the secret of making a particular piece of old-world tech, such as Stealthbucks, Power Armor, and more, when no one else can. Huzzah for you!

* More awesome things...?

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INNOVATION PERKS

Advanced Inventions (Level 6)
Ability to create Advanced Inventions, and perform Bonus Innovations.
Expert Inventions (Level 10)
Ability to create Expert Inventions and perform Bonus Innovations.
Atlas Back (Level 16, END 8)
You can move earth as per Siege Works without spending IP.

Raise This Barn now has the following line:
When multiple ponies with this perk work together they may pool their IP together. The time reductions apply to the invention process.

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Now here's some things I really don't like at all:

Unicorn or Pegasus Perks:
Muddy Horn/Feathers (Level 6)
You may learn one Advanced Invention and learn any Basic Invention if specifically trained in it for one week by an Earth Pony.

Nooooo! Do not take the Earth Pony's unique new mechanic and let anyone ELSE do it! That totally misses the point of them having something different and cool to do, if others can do it too.

Prismatic Lenses: 3IP

By spending 3IP an Earth Pony is able to reconfigure an Energy Weapon to deal Fire, Cold or Electrical damage instead of it's normal damage type.

Okay, for one, *its, but more importantly, this is in no way balanced, as that would make it ignore DT, and only have resistances of that type apply. And resistances are always only a percentage. So you could modify a Magic Pistol this way, and have it STILL deal most of its damage to a fully-kitted Steel Ranger. That... doesn't seem right. At all.

Gyrocopter: 3IP +1IP per minute
You can hack together a temporary Gyrocopter, allowing limited personal flight. You gain Flight Rank 1 while in the device.

Jetpack: 3IP +1IP per round
You can hack together a temporary jetpack, giving you Flight Rank 3 while in the air. While using the Jetpack you have to take at least two Charge actions every round.

Steam Bike: 3IP +3IP per hour
You can create a Steam Bike that enhances the rider's ground speed by a factor of four. A pony riding a Steam Bike may not take Move actions, only Charge or Sprint. A pony can jump off a Steambike at any time, but it takes 80AP to saddle back up.

Actually I freaking love these, though I think they'd need testing. I like the cost/time difference. Giving an EP Flight 3 in any way is a little iffy, but the flavor is fun. Adjusting duration of inventions specifically for vehicles seems really reasonable.

Junk ("Party") Cannon: 4IP per shot
35AP: Fires a shot made of the concentrated inventory junk in your saddlebags. Deals 10+1d10 damage for every pound of junk you fire (max 100+10d10). Any junk fired in this way is destroyed forever. Short range.

Um. No. Direct offensive attack powers should be limited to those with actual magic. BUILDING a temporary cannon that you can fire junk at people WITH is totally fine, IMO.
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And that's my take. There you have a solid framework to lean on instead of simply trying to ask your GM's permission for what every cost should be, but it also doesn't restrict players to specific types or individual items. Since it's effectively MacGyver magic, it makes sense that it can run out. And given how versatile it is, it doesn't need to contribute a whole lot of perks. Does that seem like a reasonable enough place to start a compromise?

[Tankenstein_PhD]

On the one hand, I like the idea of "MacGyvering" your way out of situations with crazy inventions. On the other, part of me can't get over the fact that these creations are being made from abstract points. The ones that just involve messing with the environment seem okay, but just making a zip gun or such out of thin air? Also, said zip gun simply falling apart if it isn't used within a certain amount of time? I have a hard time suspending my disbelief with that. Plus, the more I think about it, the more I wonder if this might just be encroaching on the invention mechanics. I'm still totally on board with the idea of giving EPs something that only they can do that makes playing them more attractive, but I thought I might go ahead and raise these issues.

[SilverlightPony]

On the one hand, I like the idea of "MacGyvering" your way out of situations with crazy inventions. On the other, part of me can't get over the fact that these creations are being made from abstract points. The ones that just involve messing with the environment seem okay, but just making a zip gun or such out of thin air?

Pretty sure there has to be some sort of materials available that could plausibly used by someone channeling the spirit of ol' Mac himself to create the device in question.

[Tankenstein_PhD]

On the one hand, I like the idea of "MacGyvering" your way out of situations with crazy inventions. On the other, part of me can't get over the fact that these creations are being made from abstract points. The ones that just involve messing with the environment seem okay, but just making a zip gun or such out of thin air?

Pretty sure there has to be some sort of materials available that could plausibly used by someone channeling the spirit of ol' Mac himself to create the device in question.

That's kinda my issue. While I think this system is certainly less dependent on the GM being nice enough to throw the player a bone, this restriction means we're just mitigating the problem inherent in the Cyberpony perks, not really solving it. If a shootout erupts in a bombed out street, pegasi and unicorns can go straight to work, while EPs have to run off into a building to poke around for materials to use. Meanwhile they've still got to keep track of a pool of points.

Perhaps including a few more material-less skills like "Siege Works" would help? I can't think of any of the top of my head, but it seems like a good idea.