Tier-based Weapon List

[Godna]

Well considering it's already on the list. I think he definitely has a valid point there.

[uSea]

Just as a tiny correction for the sake of accuracy, the "Anti-Material" rifle should be named the "Anti-Materiel" rifle, as the word "materiel" refers to military equipment such as radios and truck engines. A rifle of the type built to disable said materiel from afar is what the gigantic .50 Cal. firing rifle from Fallout: New Vegas is based off of, and what I assume the weapon on the list has also been derived from.

If not, then I'm just talking out my ass. >_>

That said, I find your lack of a big, balloon-mounted Anti-Machine rifle... disturbing. :3

You're absolutely right, thanks for spotting it!
As for giant balloon-mounted Anti-Machine rifles... I wouldn't want to take the fun away from GM's when it comes to giving those things a damage number :>

Along those lines I'd like to say that a lot of weapon/ammo names have just been kept over from New Vegas to avoid (my) confusion. This thread would make a great place for talking about better, more ponified names that suit the FoE universe. Stuff like the "Colt .45" already works but "10mm Pistol" is a bit dull.

Well in the realm of melee weapons, as i play a melee main pony as my primary character, i have to say that the -5 to the katana's damage makes it very un appealing, granted the game i am in has a larger focus on high DT enemies, like steel rangers, and ghouls made of stone, so high DT is more of a factor to me.

Fast weapons are always going to suffer more against DT than slow weapons without some armour-reducing special rule to help them out, but what about adding weapon-specific special attacks like in New Vegas? I think this is already a part of some lists. For example, the New Vegas Katana's special attack did around double damage for the cost of double action points. This wouldn't be directly ported, since we want to make sure that the regular attack is better for most opponents and the special attack is good in certain situations (e.g. when facing high DT in the Katana's case.) Special attacks could also give some melee weapons a knock-back ability which only unarmed users can do at the moment.
Something like:

Unlaboured Flawlessness (Katana)
4xAGI +50 + [For 40AP] On Crit: Ignores 1/2 Target DT but does NOT multiply damage

The weaker critical effect is in place since it already does double the base damage of a regular strike and if it could double again we'd run the risk of the special attack being better against all opponents and not just heavily armoured ones.

Now about that change to shotguns... now, granted i would like to turn a teir 1 weapon into the best anti steel ranger gun pre tier 4, and i find the idea that all of a sudden steel rangers every were will be getting killed by teams of 2-3 ponies armed with single shot shotguns and sneak attacking them for hundreds of damage each as that fancy, and expensive, power armor fails to stop even a third of the damage from the armor shredding blasts of shotguns. And the only real downside of is that if some one stands more then 50 feet away, they will need to spend 15 ap to draw another weapon, of just move closer to keep shooting.

Surprise gives the first attacker +20% crit chance on their first attack, after which the target is "aware". But you are right that if a Single Shotgun got lucky and gets a critical hit at point blank range (with the new -5DT) and had the Shotgun Surgeon perk (another -10DT with very low requirements) then the damage they could deal against power amour is a bit much for such a low cost weapon.
The damage and value of the Single Shotgun will be lowered (putting it in the T0 group) and the Lever-action Shotgun is being added to T1 in its place.

For anyone interested in how T1/2 are shaping up with the shotgun changes in mind I've made a couple of docs that show their average damage against various DT amounts for easy comparison. For a more detailed look you can check out the comparison spreadsheet in the OP.

T1 vs Example Enemies

T2 vs Example Enemies

[Dance_Explosion]

I have to say i would love melee weapons to have the fancy attacks from New Vegas, it really gives them a lot more personality, and can be used to help balance out weapons better by give some better special attacks to compare to lower effectiveness. However i would also like to see the katana get crippling like it had in New Vegas if its still going to loose a chunk of its damage. oh and melee mods, I still really want to see them.

As for shotguns, the point i was trying to make with them was that they don't really need to be changed, as they are now, they are deadly in close range unless the target has more then 20DT and then it comes down to weather or not they take shotgun surgeon, or use fancy ammo, and can still be very effective and deadly. I feel that the change to shotguns is not very in tune with how they work in fallout, and makes shotguns very overpowered.

As for Ponified weapons, i already call the BAR the Brony Automatic Rifle, but calling it the Bronco Auto Rifle would be a less goofy and still ponified name.

[Dance_Explosion]

Some other suggestions i have would be to:

Up the damage for the enchanted crossbow to 30+, its kinda poor that it has the same base damage as the T1 normal crossbow even though its T3, this will keep it as a viable option for stealth attacks and sniping when compared to the same tiered sniper and battle rifles.

Change the range on the Bronco auto rifle to medium, its a little weird that its short ranged AND unwieldy giving it a range of 15-50 before you have some penalties, and between that and its astoundingly high weight makes it some what of a niche defense gun for inside buildings, which is a shame as its the only auto that uses the .308 round and has a lot of good potential [iv only seen this gun on steel ranger battle saddles when they guard buildings]

Switch the damage values for the sniper rifle and the hunting rifle, the hunting rifles damage is an awful lot for its tier, and frankly is a better sniper rifle 9/10 times then the sniper rifle, and other then the double barreled shotgun, no other gun does more damage till T4, which makes it a little over powered as a T2 gun.

Change Melee Anti-matrix, i really have to say i hate the melee crit for effect for the Anti-Matrix, its makes the weapons with it, of which there is only two, pretty unless unless your making sneak attacks, and if your making a sneak attack your better off just using a high damage weapon and hoping for that same effective instant kill, changing it to function more like the ranged Anti-matrix will also help balance out melee as being a good sneak attack alternative to using a gun.

[Night Light]

Change Melee Anti-matrix, i really have to say i hate the melee crit for effect for the Anti-Matrix, its makes the weapons with it, of which there is only two, pretty unless unless your making sneak attacks, and if your making a sneak attack your better off just using a high damage weapon and hoping for that same effective instant kill, changing it to function more like the ranged Anti-matrix will also help balance out melee as being a good sneak attack alternative to using a gun.

Though on the flip-side, the auto-shut off kind of makes it a superior sneak attack alternative to using a gun, as it's always an effective one-hit-KO against robots/anypony in power armor. But it does make Anti-Matrix a niche sort of weapon for melee Crit builds, which may be undesirable as Magic already kind of fits that bill with the x3 crit damage.

Anyways, didn't actually come here to talk about that, I just wanted to pop in to tell uSea that you did an absolutely amazing job working up that weapon comparison table. Loved pouring through the work in there and just wanted to say thank you for going to such lengths for the system and community. Looking forward to seeing the eventual changes from the work.

[uSea]

Your kind words are very appreciated Night Light! My hope is that by working together we end up with a list where the 'best' weapon depends on the character and the situation, so players are rewarded for switching weapons. After all, Littlepip was practically an armoury with hooves.


For a simple look at how the revised weapons stack up against each other you can check these links:
T1 vs Example Enemies
T2 vs Example Enemies
T3 vs Example Enemies
T4 vs Example Enemies

As for shotguns, the point i was trying to make with them was that they don't really need to be changed, as they are now, they are deadly in close range unless the target has more then 20DT and then it comes down to weather or not they take shotgun surgeon, or use fancy ammo, and can still be very effective and deadly. I feel that the change to shotguns is not very in tune with how they work in fallout, and makes shotguns very overpowered.

I don't really see them as being 'very overpowered'. The improvement they get is half as strong as a level 6 perk and it requires them to be at what is essentially melee range to get the benefit.

You are free to check the numbers yourself (in fact, please do! The more the merrier, I'm bound to have missed something) but I think shotguns are in a pretty good place when compared with melee weapons. From what I see shotguns will only do more damage than melee if fired at Point Blank range against a target with exactly 5DT (and even then high STR with the right weapon will do better). If the target has even a little bit more DT then melee comes out on top, and comes out much more on top as DT increases. This trend should continue when Shotgun Surgeon and Piercing Hoof/Strike come into play, with the sizable gap being that Shotgun Surgeon is available at level 6 while its melee counterpart requires level 12.

Change the range on the Bronco auto rifle to medium, its a little weird that its short ranged AND unwieldy giving it a range of 15-50 before you have some penalties, and between that and its astoundingly high weight makes it some what of a niche defense gun for inside buildings, which is a shame as its the only auto that uses the .308 round and has a lot of good potential [iv only seen this gun on steel ranger battle saddles when they guard buildings]

I love Bronco Auto Rifle as a name btw, and you bring up a very good point. The NV gun it was based on may not have been able to hit a barn door even if it was sitting on the handle (seriously, the only thing less accurate was a sawn-off shotgun), but our version can be a bit more practical than that. Medium range it is.

Up the damage for the enchanted crossbow to 30+, its kinda poor that it has the same base damage as the T1 normal crossbow even though its T3, this will keep it as a viable option for stealth attacks and sniping when compared to the same tiered sniper and battle rifles.

Change Melee Anti-matrix, i really have to say i hate the melee crit for effect for the Anti-Matrix, its makes the weapons with it, of which there is only two, pretty unless unless your making sneak attacks, and if your making a sneak attack your better off just using a high damage weapon and hoping for that same effective instant kill, changing it to function more like the ranged Anti-matrix will also help balance out melee as being a good sneak attack alternative to using a gun.

I'd like to improve enchanted crossbows (and maybe add compound crossbows or something) but they were added by Kkat so I wanted to ask before making changes to them, and my priority is getting the revised version of the more common weapons sorted first. As for Anti-matrix, I don't think it needs to be changed. Remember that the ranged version is exclusive to special Explosive ammo types with the only exception being Pulse Slugs for shotguns. Incidentally, special ammo will be looked at again when we're happier with the weapon revisions.

Switch the damage values for the sniper rifle and the hunting rifle, the hunting rifles damage is an awful lot for its tier, and frankly is a better sniper rifle 9/10 times then the sniper rifle, and other then the double barreled shotgun, no other gun does more damage till T4, which makes it a little over powered as a T2 gun.

Since the Hunting Rifle's Custom Action mod has been made weaker (only lowering to 30AP now) I don't think we need to be quite that drastic:

Hunting Rifle: 45++ (35/30AP) 112 for 70AP (60AP with mod) [Long Range]
Sniper Rifle: 38++ (25AP) 147 for 75AP [Sniper Range]

That seems like a decent jump in damage to me. For a modded Hunting Rifle to fire 3 shots per turn the character would need the Kamikaze trait and an AGI of 9 or 10 to get the required 90+ AP. Even then the Sniper has superior range and comes with a scope, making it great for called shots even at Extreme distances.

But if we look at the T2 list I linked above, we can see that the Hunting Rifle only does 10ish less damage than the two Short ranged pistols, and since it does its damage in just 2 shots it's pretty good against DT too. I wouldn't be opposed to the Hunting Rifle being a bit weaker (-3 damage seems like it would be the sweet spot) but I'd like to hear what others think first.

[uSea]

One more thing!

With the help of Viewing_Glass and others a first draft of Melee Weapon Special Attacks has been put together.

You can take a look here

As I said this is a first draft and nothing has been set in stone so if you have ideas for a weapon or think something should be altered then please let me know. More ideas are always welcome!

[Viewing_Glass]

Awesome list uSea.

After having a conversation in regards to MEW, it was pointed out in NV that folks were always waiting for the recharger rifle and the recharger pistol to recharge before they could shoot again. With that in mind, I would suggest the following change to the recharger definition:

You may only fire three shots per turn with this weapon.

[Dance_Explosion]

well uSEA i say shot guns will be over powered due to them being extremely cheap and high damage guns that only work in short or shorter range with these changes, as the shot guns are now: they are deadly but stopped by thick armor and high DT, but this weakness can be over come with fletchett ammo [the AP ammo for shotguns] and shot gun surgeon. with the change you want to make it makes the down side for shot guns be the range [when using buck shot and not slugs i imagine] making shotguns by and large having the same or better damages in point bank then melee, and this is all done without needing nearly as high STR and without needing melee or unarmed as a skill. It makes melee and unarmed even worse of an option as only very very good melee ponies can do it when many others can just use a shot gun and sink more points into shooting then bothering with learning how to sword.



What i'm trying to get across is that the change to how shot guns work, which is completely needed as shot guns are already really good, makes shot guns a all around "if its close" weapon since the majority of ponies have firearms. why go melee when a shotgun can do more damage and need less skill points and SPECIAL points spread out. you only need agility, for both AP and firearms as a skill.

[Viewing_Glass]

So, after using the Laguna Blade maneuver to kill a Yao Guai, I believe the list is very good! I would suggest that some of the more complex abilities be taken a closer look at (like the Laguna Blade) should be stream lined to be easier to understand. Learning how the maneuver worked took longer than the fight with bear.

In addition, I might suggest improving the flat damage maneuvers to be a little more interesting.