Alternate Core Documents

[uSea]

Hurray discussion! The more input people give the better the result should be.

While things are worked out the list has been reverted and the revised versions can be found on tabs to the right of the doc.

I'll start with the Gauss Rifle. The crit multiplier was lowered because I noticed that's how it was in NV (where it only did 50% extra damage on a crit). I was also worried that with a 3x multiplier it would simply outshine the AMR, since it was already much lighter and had a significantly lower STR requirement. The only downside I saw was cost of ammo. But you are absolutely right about it not having a good anti-armour option... and trying to put in 5 overcharged cells goes from expensive to astronomical. I don't have a problem with restoring the Gauss' crit damage.

How about the MASR? It was based on the LAER which did less than 25% extra damage on a crit but had a bonus against robots. Currently the MASR deals 2x crit damage against most targets and roughly 3x crit damage to robots (with the added AX damage.) Are we happy with this or should it be changed?

The fractional .5 STR thing should be easy enough to sort out. Up the STR and lower the dam or vice versa, whichever is more appropriate for the weapon.

Previously the Riot Shotgun out damaged everything by quite a lot. The reduced version averages just under 40 damage per hit and still out performs its piers at 60AP and at 80AP (which is where 20AP weapons really shine.) The Sawed-off will do better if the character has 70 to 79AP but is even more limited by range. The Riot Shotgun's weakness is DT, but with a level 6 perk letting it negate 10DT from any target that weakness doesn't seem enough to justify even more damage.

The rate of fire changes were made after putting the numbers in here and getting some worrying results. At this point I'd rather improve their starting damage (which would help their Burst Fire and against DT) but this is very open to debate. The minigun and gatling laser could be an exception though, with even higher RoF and a little less damage to compensate.

For the Enchanted Zebra Sword I'd actually managed to mix up zebra enchantments and the armor bypass spell in my head.
Similarly with the Thunder Axe I was thinking of the ranged version of Anti-Matrix. Thanks for reminding me.

As for the Katana I'm afraid I have to disagree with you. Not only was it one of the best melee weapons before (beaten only by the Ballistic Hoof) but it still is, as can be seen here.
Most melee weapons require STR for damage and AGI for AP, but Agile weapons get both from AGI. Since Agile weapons require half the stat investment shouldn't their potential damage be not quite as high to make up for it?

The Auto-Axe's damage is so high because it will only (realistically) be able to make a single attack each turn. With its AP cost of 60 a character would need to be at least level 17, have the perks Gladiator + Action Filly 1+2, and have an AGI of 9 to get a second swing. In addition it requires a very high STR to make the single hit it gets count. It would be great for characters with high STR and low AGI but is outclassed by other weapons if more AP is available.
As an example, for 70AP the Bumper Sword could attack twice, dealing around 20 more damage in total than the Auto Axe at any STR amount. The Axe's Armor Piercing (Heavy) lets it catch up if the target has 10DT, but remember that every melee and unarmed weapon could be ignoring 10DT by this point, meaning the Auto Axe would only be better at direct damage if the target had 20DT or more.

From what I observed the faster melee weapons out damaged their slower cousins by a significant margin, which is why many faster weapons took a reduction in power and some slower weapons got a boost. Things should be much closer now.

[Viewing_Glass]

I thought that might have been the case for a lot of the changes, damage results being too high once the math was done. Are you planning on adding the Rare quality to the Auto Axe, as it is only seen in the story in Fillydelphia or with the Steel Rangers?

[Fridge]

Honestly? I think you should put Riot Shotgun into the Tier 4 category, give it a slight buff, and just nerf Hunting Shotgun and have it come with a "Drum" upgrade.

[Dimestream]

Thanks for being not being angry about this, uSea. It looked like a lot of work that suddenly everyone had problems with. But... for good reason, mostly.

I do like the idea of the MASR, or other MEW, being useful for more purposes than just shooting for damage. After all, they should have something that would recommend them as a valid choice in the war, or for players to use. Since some GMs have had energy crits disintegrate possible loot , there really were no upsides to using them, but having an antimatrix effect on a crit instead of extra damage? That's pretty solid in the MASR's case.

We'll still be at odds about the riot shotgun. Currently, it's not much better than tier 1, let alone Tier 4! That gun was pretty boss in FNV, and don't you try to muddle the issue with your fancy mathematics! (and wow are they some seriously fancy mathematics! ) I'm going to have to run some of these things again, seeing as how when I ran the math, I was doing better with a 10mm pistol against yellow and orange targets than I was with the riot shotgun, even *assuming* shotgun surgeon and slugs. Maybe flechette loads?

I really can't speak on speed vs heavy hits for melee, as I've yet to have a character who invests in it, but I will note that only when you pile on some extra elemental damage do they become actually better against anything with a level-averaged DT. Then the multiple hits from quick weapons add *significant* damage, and that's because, well, I still don't think imbuing is balanced properly. So many changes have been made to melee weapons and melee perks recently that I think we should just settle down and test some of them before making more sweeping alterations.

[Warp]

I have some thoughts on the changes, but overall I am happy with them. Particularly, with toning down the faster melee weapons, and especially Spiked Shoes. As somezebra who has used them fairly extensively, I can safely say, in my opinion, LORDY did those things need a nerf. I imagine uSea wouldn't argue there

There's still a bit of wonkiness with the way bonus damage perks work in relation to low AP weapons, especially when you take things like piercing strike into account (with it, spiked shoes will still outperform even powerhooves most of the time if the pony has iron hoof rank 2 and bloody mess, which isn't an unreasonable assumption for a mid level melee character to have picked up along the way. Even on DT15 things.) Not to mention, as others have said, things like imbuing from unicorns and zebra shamanism. Blender characters still seem to come out on top most of the time when you take things like perk/spell support into account, but there's definitely been a lot of good steps in the right direction to balance things out on the baseline. Thanks for all your hard work, guys!

[Viewing_Glass]

Keep in mind that Unicorn Imbuing and Zebra Shamanism that gives bonus damage to unarmed weapons will cause you to take that damage on each hit. But I assume some unicorn has given Warp a Spirit of Diamond on her shoes, or the Zebra put a Spirit of Winds in her Spiked shoes. *nods*

[Warp]

Keep in mind that Unicorn Imbuing and Zebra Shamanism that gives bonus damage to unarmed weapons will cause you to take that damage on each hit. But I assume some unicorn has given Warp a Spirit of Diamond on her shoes, or the Zebra put a Spirit of Winds in her Spiked shoes. *nods*

Oh, yeah, I realize that, but when I mention damage perks and imbuing/unicorn magic causing low AP weapons to skyrocket in effectiveness, I'm talking about every weapon type; not just unarmed. Melee and ranged very much included

[radmelon]

I was looking at the equipment list, and I noticed that the 12.77mm smg is missing. The pistol is there, but no automatic. Just something to think about when doing the revisions.

[Viewing_Glass]

Keep in mind that Unicorn Imbuing and Zebra Shamanism that gives bonus damage to unarmed weapons will cause you to take that damage on each hit. But I assume some unicorn has given Warp a Spirit of Diamond on her shoes, or the Zebra put a Spirit of Winds in her Spiked shoes. *nods*

Oh, yeah, I realize that, but when I mention damage perks and imbuing/unicorn magic causing low AP weapons to skyrocket in effectiveness, I'm talking about every weapon type; not just unarmed. Melee and ranged very much included

Yeah. It gets really nasty on automatic weapons. XD

[ToWhatEnd]

Even more so on characters who have Kamikaze and 2 ranks of Action Colt.

Haven't reached there yet, but it is going to get pretty insane when I can punch 8 times in one turn and then still have enough AP to waltz back into cover.