Alternate Core Documents

A place to discuss any PnP (Pen and Paper) role-playing games you are working on.
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uSea
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Re: Alternate Core Documents

Post by uSea » Wed May 22, 2013 10:07 am

Night Light wrote:
uSea wrote:One solution could be to roll the damage as normal and /then/ multiply the result. While I like rolling all those extra damage dice, this method should actually be even simpler to work out than what we do at the moment and ends up in basically the same place (with the new version requiring rounding once, if ever). E.g. 30+2d10 and (15+1d10)x2 are close enough together that it makes no odds.
I definitely think this would be the best solution of all noted so far. A similar mechanic is even already in the system, given everyone with a Perfect quality weapon is already having to do that (multiplying the final roll sum by 1.1, that is).
I'd forgotten there was precedent for multiplying damage like that. As such this becomes my preferred method of working out critical hits.

-

To change the subject for a moment, as part of the ongoing Tiered list revision I'm also making a change to Armour Piercing ammo types which I plan to implement now.

All AP ammo types are now standardised at -5 DAM since they all share the same 1/2DT 'Armor Piercing' rule.
This makes it so AP ammo will only be superior to standard rounds against armoured targets with a DT greater than 10.

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Viewing_Glass
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Re: Alternate Core Documents

Post by Viewing_Glass » Wed May 22, 2013 2:39 pm

Ah, I love it when things are consistent. Thank you uSea.

[Edit] This is with the exception of 5mm Armour Piercing, which still has Armor Piercing (Heavy) attached, correct?

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Dance_Explosion
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Re: Alternate Core Documents

Post by Dance_Explosion » Wed May 22, 2013 5:26 pm

I would say that the 5mm AP ammo should not have the -5 dam, if only due to that is the whole reason to use either of the two 5mm guns, and they both do fairly low damage, -5 to the assault carbine is a full 1/3rd of its damage lost, and it makes it hard to bother using them all that much with the AP ammo unless the target has like 40DT [which is now more possible with the buff to heavy armor i will grant!]

:rwalk:
Last edited by Dance_Explosion on Fri May 24, 2013 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ask me about shamanism, i can FAQ it for you.

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uSea
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Re: Alternate Core Documents

Post by uSea » Wed May 22, 2013 6:46 pm

Regular 5mm rounds (which have the Armor Piercing rule naturally) haven't been changed.

5mm AP rounds have been given -5 DAM since they are Armor Piercing (Heavy) and ignore ALL of the target's DT (1/2 more than the regular ammo, so the same situation of it only being better against 10DT+ should apply).

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Dance_Explosion
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Re: Alternate Core Documents

Post by Dance_Explosion » Fri May 24, 2013 1:33 pm

Well it will still work fine for the 5mm weapons i suppose, I'm just worried about having to deal with Rangers and Robots with 40+DT most AP ammo will still have to deal with 25DT [cutting it in half and counting that -5 to damage] and for weapons like the sniper rifle, that's only doing around 10++, and that's a sniper rifle with armor piecing .308 ammo.

However Viewing class pointed out to me that: "you can apply critical hits to lower armor quality, and make that DT drop significantly!" which does heavily mitigate my complaints... can we do that to robots? We have to fight our way past a load of super robots and with the latest upgrades to heavy armor, as well as the nerf to critical hits, we may be in big trouble.

:rwalk:
Ask me about shamanism, i can FAQ it for you.

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Dance_Explosion
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Re: Alternate Core Documents

Post by Dance_Explosion » Mon May 27, 2013 1:11 pm

Well its time for me to post this again, i need to hear if anyone has any problems with this list so far so i know if any changes are needed at this point for shamanism.

Notes to remember: all shamanism is balanced around SA 5 being the most common that a player will chose to use for enchantments and bindings. however at low levels it is unlikely that a player will be able to do more then one or two bindings of any real mention until level 8 when advanced shamanism comes into play.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JF_ ... ctlfc/edit

Let me know what you think everyone, this list is almost done and really needs more input to finish it off. Buffalo shamanism most of all really. :fluttercry:

:rwalk:
Ask me about shamanism, i can FAQ it for you.

ToWhatEnd
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Re: Alternate Core Documents

Post by ToWhatEnd » Tue May 28, 2013 9:50 pm

First things first:

"Totem attacks cost 30 AP. This cannot be reduced with perks or traits such as Spell Alacrity or Kamikaze."

Kamikaze doesn't lower AP costs. It increases the PC's total Action Points. Zebras seem more balanced, which is both good and bad. Good because no more Spirit of Wind making every weapon ever a rapid fire nightmare from hell. Bad because everyone else isn't really getting a balance. They are getting buffs to compensate against the unicorn master race.

Buffalo shamanism seem worse off now though since you have to invest into Survival, Barter, and Unarmed to make full use of it. I'd prefer the old system, even though it was extremely undefined and basically was just a sticky note saying "YOU CAN DO ANYTHING" (Seriously, what the hell are Spirit Prisons supposed to do?).

My group made a rule where when summoning a spirit you had to roll a d10 for the spirit power. This turned shamans into the Psykers of FoE. You wanted to roll high because it made your favors stronger, but too high and all hell broke lose and the warp overtakes you. I find it funny going from turning my companions into abominations to make them extremely powerful, or having the spirits pull a prank on me and turn me into a living coke buffalo that vomits Sparkle-Cola. :twilightoops:

Fridge
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Re: Alternate Core Documents

Post by Fridge » Tue May 28, 2013 10:59 pm

Okay, so. I think some revisions are in order for some perks, which are either just completely broken (not in a "too good to be here" way, but something that just doesn't work for the system we have now), or just need some clarification on the wording, or adjustments to which I would say they need to be ostensibly better for anyone to take them outside of "roleplay" reasons (which are admittedly completely subjective on my part). As such, I'm going to organize them by what how I see the problem as.

Subjective: This is just my opinion, and typically is just some complaint about how the perk works in the logic behind it, or how it operates based on what I've seen in how it's presented in game. Your mileage may vary.

Wording: Typically, it's just a matter of it being worded oddly where it might cause some arguments between a GM and players on how it works. Somewhat subjective, but typically just nitpicking.

Mechanical: This perk does not make sense in this system. It is intrinsically broken, and is usually a remnant of how it works in the video game not being how it works in the tabletop, or a remnant of the past edition. These typically need to either be removed, or reworked to apply to this game.

Right! Let's get down to it.

--

Brown Muzzle: (Level 2, Subjective) I have never seen this picked. Maybe it could do something like the "Sex" perks like Black Stallion or Cherez la Filly for authority figures to make it a bit more enticing?

Thief: (Level 2, Subjective) So, wait. You can't even attempt to pickpocket unless you have this perk? Lame! Personally, I'd go for having a prohibitive penalty to pickpocket-ing like a -30 outside of having this perk. If you have those many ranks in sneak or in "Lack of Fucks" to mitigate the penalty, well, then at that point, you deserve to give no fucks.

Tail Trick: (Level 2, Subjective) This lacks a lot of "crunch" reasons to get it and that makes me a sad icebox. Personally, I think that this is something EP's, or even all ponies should just get with their racial package. It hurts my head to imagine how EP's at least handle explosives or lockpicking or anything that requires deft movement without it. If they want to be a "badass" and use it to shoot mouthguns or fling around explosives, then they can do it with a -2 to their STR for all purposes and use the AP they have naturally in their turn to fling and fire them around. I am positive that Littlepip or Calamity wouldn't feel too outgunned, and it opens up a new, interesting set of perk ideas for everypony.

Running Tackle: (Level 2, Wording/Subjective) So, wait. Can you not sprint, roll to stop, and tackle somepony if you don't have this perk? How come flying tackle is something you just get and don't have to blow a perk on, then? Does this perk also apply to flying tackles? Also, kind of a weird thing, but the trip rules aren't 100% clear. Do you roll an attack with whatever you have on hoof as a thing, and then do the contest of STR+1d10 against AGI+1d10? If so, why wouldn't you simply always use your hind leg and never have to spend more than 15AP on the unarmed thing if unarmed is your thing? How much AP would it take to use the stock of a "rifle" class gun as a melee weapon in this attempt? Does the +2 apply to the "To hit" or the "To trip" roll? When do you trip if the tackle happens on their turn? Do you have to have the AP left over for an unarmed or melee attack to attempt it? Once again, I think this is just something that you should get and have to deal with the penalties for.

Explodey McGee: (Level 4, Subjective) There is absolutely nothing wrong with this perk. I just wanted to take this moment to give props to the folk in question that improved it. :ajsmug:

Hit the Deck!: (Level 4, Wording) Aren't all explosives ranged? Now I kind of want to see the elusive melee explosive that this doesn't cover. :ajbemused:
Are we talking all weapons that are under the "Thrown/Placed" explosives weapon tag, as well as explosive projectile weapons and the like? If that's the case, do we include stun damage coming from stun grenades and attribute damage from gas grenades?

Lone Wanderer: (Level 4, Wording) Does this apply if you're stealthed and the party can't see you that way?

Demolitions Expert: (Level 6, Mechanical) How is cooking off a grenade going to differ from just throwing it outside of how it's roleplayed? Typically, whenever a friend of mine uses a grenade, the GM just takes into account the AoE and says it hits so long as they get the roll. If they don't, it doesn't hit anyone, or on a crit fail, might hurt the player in question. My idea on how to fix it is to make it a preventative perk, either increasing the difficulty for an enemy to spot and disarm your explosive, making it less likely that you hit an ally in range of the blast, or granting the explosive in question a DT penetration, so long as it's a thrown or placed explosive on all matters. Explosive projectiles have range

Pathfinder: (Level 6, Subjective) I just don't see how this is useful at all to want to blow a perk on it. I've never been in a game in which getting anywhere on a map-and-compass scale 25% faster would've changed anything, nor have I been in a game that's ever used a sky bandit, which to me seems like a pretty narrow use since it only affects one kind of vehicle. My suggestion to correct this is to make it so that you can roll a survival or perception check whenever a GM would roll up a random encounter to see if you can avoid the random encounter or at least avoid an ambush.

Ammo Crafter: (Level 6, Wording/Mechanical) I don't think there's any system in place for recovering ammo, nor would anyone really want to deal with it. So, I'd personally simply get rid of the first part altogether and make this what you need to make the "Craftable" ammo for firearms. Maybe make it a "Firearms" reliant thing instead of a Mechanics thing so that there's a reason to have firearms over Battle Saddles.

Vigilant Recycler: (Level 6, Mechanical) Outside of "Optimized" ammo in uSea's list, there aren't any craftable ammo kinds for M.E.W.'s, nor does anyone want to roll if they keep the hulls, casings, or batteries since it's really too much trouble for too little pay-off, and I don't think there's a system in place even if they wanted to recycle. So, let's just make it the equivalent of Ammo Crafter, throw in the optimized stuff, and maybe something else. Armor Piercing or Silent Ammo, anypony?

Organizer: (Level 8, Subjective) There's nothing really wrong with this, but, well. Carry weight in Fo:E is a joke and that's the way we like it. I just don't see the point in having it being something to worry about since you're co-operating with five other ponies to shoulder the weight with, so I don't see the point in stuff like this perk.

Super Slam: (Level 8, Subjective/Wording) Doesn't seem very "Super Slam"-my based on the effects written. I get why it is, but maybe we could rename the perk "Will Knock You Down" or something.

Sharpshooter: (Level 9, Wording) Since perception has no influence on what your range is for your weapon, I believe, the second perk is the only useful bit there.

And Stay Back!: (Level 10, Mechanical) Okay! This is actually what I started this big, stupid list to mention! Since pellets are no longer a thing we have to worry about (at least in uSea's weapon list, I think it still works fine in Ten's as long as you use the damage rolls to determine knockback), this has lost all meaning! So, how can we fix it? Well, I talked it out with uSea, and we came to three possibilities!
One: Make it a flat amount of push movement per turn on a hit target, resistible on a strength check.
Two: Simply use the damage on the d10 rolls to determine if you move 'em. If you roll a ten, you move 'em a set amount. Multiple tens push more.
Three: Have it push a hit target for as many units as the damage done to it divided by 20, 15, or 10 at Medium, Short, and PB respectively.
I like option three the best, uSea's split between two and three, but it's really open for discussion.

How We Do It On The Farm: (Level 10, Wording) Do we take the multiplier for a critical, 200% for example, and then add 50% to the multiplier itself, or do we add 150% of the total damage done on a critical hit on top of that critical hit? Or does it make a difference? My head's kind of buzzing right now.

Chemist: (Level 14, Subjective) How long do chems usually last? Is there a chart for it, or do we just kind of imagine it? I'd prefer it that if we didn't, we make one.
[Edit: We actually totally do! It's in the Misc. Items section!]

Celestia Powered: (Level 20, Subjective/Wording/Mechanical) You know, since we do have some games that take place before and after the cloud ceiling, we really should write something down here.

Amanuensis: (Level 22, Mechanical) Why is this even here? I've never run into a blank magazine in my gaming experience, nor at this point would it even be useful. Either lower the level requirements, or just remove it altogether. Judging by what Kkat herself said, I'm leaning towards the latter.

Don't Touch That!: (EP, Level 2, Subjective, Mechanical) First off, I don't think there's an IED underneath Ten's or uSea's list for you to make. Second off, if ammo for firearms and M.E.W.'s can be crafted by everypony, why is ammo for... Well, why are thrown explosives so special? Either make 'em all EP things, or make 'em all general.
Also, someone's been playing too much "Doom" if when they think of 5mm ammo, they think of a chaingun instead of Assault Rifles and Miniguns.

Raise That Barn: (EP, Level 3, Subjective) I've never seen this picked or used because, for the most part, in a six pony group, only one or two of them are EP's. Maybe just make it so that if they're working on a project with anypony else, they're making it go 25% faster per EP with the perk.

Strong Back: (EP, Level 8, Subjective) I still think this is funny.

Bombermare/buck: (EP, Level 9, Subjective) Can somebody please explain to me why this is an EP exclusive other than "Well, we had to give them /something/." Because I think that's a lousy reason to not give something that'll be useful for every explosives expert to everyone.

Bonsai: (Ghoul, Level 12, Subjective/Mechanical) Why is this even a thing? If anything, it should simply be a quest perk or something.

Contract Killer/Lawgiver: (Griffons, Level 2 [General, Level 14], Subjective) I've never seen anyone pick up this perk, nor do I see it being useful in a day-to-day basis. Maybe if it gave a damage or to-hit bonus on folks that have a bounty on them, it would be considered a more "useful" perk to nab up.

Broad Daylight: (SATS, Level 26, Subjective) Are you friggin' kidding me? I get that Pipbucks can cast "Light" like the general Unicorn ability, but for a level 26 ability to not get noticed while casting it, I would expect that it could also shoot infrared laser beams. Or miniature sharks.

Matrix Casting: (Unicorn/Alicorn, Level (2?), Mechanical) You know, it never really goes into detail of what matrix spell casting actually does to the spell. Does it combine the potency of both unicorns/alicorns? Is versatility a factor?

--

Oh, wow. I started doing this list at around noon. It's 11PM now. Forgive me for any opinions that are a little half-baked, and I welcome any criticism to how these perks work or if they're viable or... Well, if my writing style makes you want to pitch baseballs at my handle. Anything, really.

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Thanqol
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Re: Alternate Core Documents

Post by Thanqol » Wed May 29, 2013 12:01 am

^ You did something that's been on my mind for some time. I've got some of my own to add!

How You Like THEM Apples!? - Level 6 - Mechanical: Given how fast ponies move and how insignificant +2 yards on a grenade toss is, this is strictly worse than taking Extra Special: Strength.

Quick Recovery - Level 6 - Subjective: Awfully situational

Whining presence - Level 8 - Subjective: +10 speech in exchange for negatives when Sun and Moon at the same level gives +15 speech with no negatives?

Luna’s Ruse - Level 10 - Wording: What does +1 Crit Multiplier mean with the new critical hit system?

Mysterious Mare-Do-Well - Level 10 - Wording: How often do you roll to see if you get helped? Every encounter? How good is the help? GM fiat?

Mental Block - Level 16 - Wording, Subjective: 'Ulterior' bonus to all rolls? What's wrong with additional? Also, how really useful are these bonuses when they require you to sit quietly and do nothing?

Memory Implant - EP 18 - Wording: The effects of the retained bonuses are strange. If taken at face value they'd require me to fill my character sheet with dozens of minor notes (hacked Hard terminal - +7. Shot dodging pegasus at -30 - +1). In addition, a +d10 bonus to a skill is the definition of inelegant. Almost anything else would be better.

Death from Above - Griffon 4 - Wording, Subjective: "Using to full advance". Subjectively, I don't see why pegasus ponies are assumed to be unable to hide while airborne (not mentioned anywhere else in the system other than the implications of this perk). I think modern drone warfare shows just how easy it is to hide things in the sky.

Cheers,

- Thanqol

Fridge
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Re: Alternate Core Documents

Post by Fridge » Wed May 29, 2013 1:57 am

First, I think you kind of misunderstand what I meant by the three problem areas. Subjective means that I can say that it functions in the game, but you feel it's bad for one reason or another, even for a logical reason. Wording means that you felt that the description was unclear in one way or another. Mechanical means that it doesn't even fit with how the game works. Not that I'm getting on your back, that I'm getting any kind of traction whatsoever is a good thing, just correcting you on a matter that... Admittedly doesn't even really matter.

--

How You Like THEM Apples!? - Level 6 - Yeah, you're right on here. I think it's a subjective matter, but I agree with you completely at any rate. Maybe we should boost the STR bonus that one can use or just say that you can hit anything within "Short" range for taking the perk.

Quick Recovery - Level 6 - I would agree with you that shaving all of five or ten AP for something off isn't really a thing. What I would like to know is how could we possibly give it something more? Simply make getting up not an action?

Whining Presence - Level 8 - I feel that both actually have negatives. Sun and Moon in particular would require you not to want to be a good guy or a bad guy, and if you swing one way or another, you lose the perk. Both facilitate a playstyle, whether it be a game as a foal or a neutral character. I get what you're saying, I just feel the problem isn't as bad as you make it out to be.

Luna' Ruse- Level 10 - I think right now, it means a 100% increase. Which, if you're catching something so by surprise that you're getting them sleeping, I'd say you deserve it.

Mysterious Mare-Do-Well - Level 10 - Yeah, for all intents and purposes, it's a GM fiat. I actually do like the looser rules on this, but it does require a lot of trust on the side of the player on the GM to actually use it time and again.

More later, but keep in mind that we should not only bring up problems, but also solutions.

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