Alternate Core Documents

[Fridge]

Except that Zebras are the /only/ ones that can do alchemy without some GM fuckery. And what makes griffons special isn't their ability to be sneaky, it's their ability to be right terrifying predators. One does not mean the other.

[Thanqol]

My position is simple as well:

Stealth characters of all types are fun to play. Griffons are just better at it than others, like how Zebra are better at Alchemy than others. I'm ok with a system that promotes a race's natural talent for a given skill.

Then do what I suggested in the first place. Give griffons a bonus to stealth. "Griffons do not suffer penalties to Stealth for being airborne". "Griffons gain +20 to Stealth while in the clouds". Something like that.

Don't make being a griffon a prerequisite for stealth, which is the result of the current system.

[Viewing_Glass]

Except that Zebras are the /only/ ones that can do alchemy without some GM fuckery.

Zebra's are the only ones who can do any basic, advanced, or expert alchemy, true. The common recipes are always open, though, should you have the skill.

Then do what I suggested in the first place. Give griffons a bonus to stealth. "Griffons do not suffer penalties to Stealth for being airborne". "Griffons gain +20 to Stealth while in the clouds". Something like that.

Don't make being a griffon a prerequisite for stealth, which is the result of the current system.

I'm still unsure how you think that griffons are the only ones who can stealth.

As for giving griffons a bonus to stealth while using clouds instead of them being the only ones (should they take the perk) who can...I don't know. That perk is one of the really nifty things about playing a griffon. Making it just a flat bonus makes it rather boring.

[Thanqol]

I'm still unsure how you think that griffons are the only ones who can stealth.

As for giving griffons a bonus to stealth while using clouds instead of them being the only ones (should they take the perk) who can...I don't know. That perk is one of the really nifty things about playing a griffon. Making it just a flat bonus makes it rather boring.

If a pegasus pony can't hide in clouds they can't hide effectively in the sky because there's no cover. If a pegasus pony can, as you suggest, hide behind clouds but not inside clouds then the perk is useless and makes no sense. A pegasus pony with tricks is more than capable of creating a huge cloudbank that they can then hide behind. Pegasus ponies are capable of grabbing roughly pony-sized clouds, moving them rapidly and standing on top of them already; if there is no clear angle from the ground to the pony then surely there's call for a stealth check through ordinary player action.

What happens under the current system if a pegasus grabs a cloud and sits on top of it stealthily? Does she make a stealth check? Then she has successfully used a cloud to assist in a stealth check, the griffon perk is useless, the pegasus is doing the same thing. Does the cloud magically turn transparent and the pegasus auto-fails the stealth check? Then the world makes no sense.

I think the coolest thing that can be done for this perk is to make it so that griffons take no penalties for lack of cover while airborne. That's not a boring flat bonus as you demanded and it allows really cool and unique aerial manoeuvres like ambushes from blue skies that griffons can pull off but the Enclave can't.

[Dance_Explosion]

honestly i don't think that "Death from above" should be a perk at all. I personally vote to change death from above to being a perk that adds +2d10 to sneak attacks vs targets below them, if only because i love the name Death from above!

[Viewing_Glass]

I see your point, but, again, nothing in the sneak rules states you need cover of any type to make a stealth check. If the Pegasus is sitting on a cloud (such as the Enclave cloud cover) and the clouds don't allow a sight through them, then a stealth check isn't rolled, or an opposed perception check. The perk, as it currently stands allows a griffon to use the clouds to sneak attack from (as has happened to my character in the Stalliongrad campaign).

As Dance Explosion stated, a change to the perk that emphasizes a griffon's ability to use height to their advantage when attacking from stealth should fix things nicely. Just a bit of rewording for proper grammar...

"When a successful sneak attack has been made to a target that is below the griffon and no closer than short range, the Griffon deals an extra 2d10 damage."

[Thanqol]

As Dance Explosion stated, a change to the perk that emphasizes a griffon's ability to use height to their advantage when attacking from stealth should fix things nicely. Just a bit of rewording for proper grammar...

"When a successful sneak attack has been made to a target that is below the griffon and no closer than short range, the Griffon deals an extra 2d10 damage."

I would be entirely fine with that change.

[TyrannisUmbra]

Except that Zebras are the /only/ ones that can do alchemy without some GM fuckery.

Anyone can use basic alchemy. Which is pretty much just good for making chems, alcohol, and the weakest form of sleep powder/poison.

[Viewing_Glass]

Din't forget healing potions and super resto potions!

[Dance_Explosion]

Only things full zebra alchamy does for you is, better poisons, smoke bombs, wall walking paste, wing talisman, and elixirs. which is actually alot provided your going for both perks and 100 survival.