Alternate Core Documents

A place to discuss any PnP (Pen and Paper) role-playing games you are working on.
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Night Light
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Re: Alternate Core Documents

Post by Night Light » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:55 am

Ilushia wrote:Stun damage shouldn't be dramatically better or worse against targets than lethal damage. It should just allow you an option to take someone alive, rather than critically wounding them, if that's your desire.
Well put, especially given your examples. This most recent change makes Stun Damage roughly as powerful as Armor Piercing, except for some corner DT cases (such as most of the Stalliongrad party), which feels alright and gives a convenient rough balance point.
Thanqol wrote:Idea. How to make Earth Ponies cool.

Answer: Innovation Points
Honestly, that feels like it really just restricts GM and player creativity and options. For instance, Night Light invented a Pipbuck-based Auto Injector for our Stalliongrad game. If inventions requiring "Complex mechanical workings, limited autonomy, flight, extreme durability, ability to work with advanced materials." had been shoehorned as Earth Pony Only then I absolutely wouldn't have been able to for no better reason than "Because the rules say so", despite my Science 115 and easily accessible power armor to study. We also had a situation where Red Button (Dimestream), our master mechanic, rummaged through some old buildings for materials and built a gyrocopter. If she didn't have the Expert Inventions perk then, again, she wouldn't have been able to build that despite her expert training for no better reason than "Because the rules say so". Heck, even if she had the perk she couldn't have done it, given she made a two-seater. Innovation is at the core of every Pen and Paper game, putting rules on how you can be innovative only stymies player agency and GM freedom.

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Re: Alternate Core Documents

Post by Thanqol » Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:10 am

Night Light wrote:Honestly, that feels like it really just restricts GM and player creativity and options. For instance, Night Light invented a Pipbuck-based Auto Injector for our Stalliongrad game. If inventions requiring "Complex mechanical workings, limited autonomy, flight, extreme durability, ability to work with advanced materials." had been shoehorned as Earth Pony Only then I absolutely wouldn't have been able to for no better reason than "Because the rules say so", despite my Science 115 and easily accessible power armor to study. We also had a situation where Red Button (Dimestream), our master mechanic, rummaged through some old buildings for materials and built a gyrocopter. If she didn't have the Expert Inventions perk then, again, she wouldn't have been able to build that despite her expert training for no better reason than "Because the rules say so". Heck, even if she had the perk she couldn't have done it, given she made a two-seater. Innovation is at the core of every Pen and Paper game, putting rules on how you can be innovative only stymies player agency and GM freedom.
This is a system where you can't steal stuff without taking the Thief perk. This is a system where your ability to get a good deal is a cold, hard, mathematical calculation based off percentages. "Because the rules say so" is, like, the foundation of this extremely crunch-heavy, simulationist system.

And because the rules don't say nothing about the supposed Earth Pony area of expertise everypony else is free to take what they want from it, which contributes to this overall 'Earth Ponies are useless' malaise.

EDIT: "Systematizing the unicorn spell list was a terrible idea. Before you came up with that list of unicorn spells my unicorn was able to fly around all the time using telekinesis and now that's totally unviable for no better reason than "Because the rules say so". Magic should be entirely freeform like it was before because a crunch-heavy spell system stifles player creativity."

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Re: Alternate Core Documents

Post by SilverlightPony » Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:20 am

I'm with Thanqol on this one. The implementation needs a bit of tweaking, but I like the EP innovation rules.

That said, the GM has, and should always have, final say and the ability to override the written rules if he/she feels doing so is worthwhile.
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Re: Alternate Core Documents

Post by Night Light » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:01 am

Thanqol wrote:This is a system where you can't steal stuff without taking the Thief perk. This is a system where your ability to get a good deal is a cold, hard, mathematical calculation based off percentages. "Because the rules say so" is, like, the foundation of this extremely crunch-heavy, simulationist system.
You're pretty intensely missing the differentiation between unnecessarily restrictive rules and building a setting. When I say "Because the rules say so" I mean the restriction has been put in place with no benefit to the setting, no necessary mechanical benefit, and (often) flies in the face of opposing logic. Rules that build the setting are vital, rules like how combat works, how social interactions work, how spells work, how building objects works - these are things that must exist for the setting to be understood and interacted with. For instance, pegasus tricks were added as a necessity to explain how pegasus used their unique abilities, helping characters understand and interact with the world. Let's look at the two examples you noted.

Being a good pickpockettakes some notable expertise, a perk requiring you to be able to do it is reasonable. Notably, you can still steal without the Thief perk, you just can't pickpocket - or at least you can't pickpocket without getting spotted as you lack the training. I could see a rule that noted that a pony simply took a penalty to stealth when attempting to pickpocket and tweaking the Thief perk to remove that penalty, but the current implementation works fine to indicate the necessity of training for such an activity.

Putting rules on Barter make sense because it can be extremely difficult for the GM to judge how effective your character's ability to barter should be without it. Roleplaying bartering is one of the biggest wastes of time I've ever seen in a tabletop game and is incredibly inconsistent. Additionally, barter is far from a set "cold, hard" calculation, given the GM can always raise or lower the base price of an item (or of all items in the entire shop/town, such as Tenpony) or give bonuses or penalties to a character's barter, to reflect the area, economy, or merchant disposition.

Also, if you call this crunch-heavy, you've got to point me to whatever other systems you've been playing, because this is by far the mathematically simplest set of rules I've ever worked with.
Thanqol wrote:And because the rules don't say nothing about the supposed Earth Pony area of expertise everypony else is free to take what they want from it, which contributes to this overall 'Earth Ponies are useless' malaise.
Viewing Glass and Dance Explosion have discussed the power of an Earth Pony specialist and covered this fairly well. Even without taking cybernetics, Mud Pie (an earth pony npc who regularly travels with us in our Stalliongrad game) is one of the most powerful and useful members of our party. I keep her built and run her in combat so Kkat can focus on everything else, and she regularly manages to out-damage and certainly out-utility Night Light (a One Trick Pony using Eldritch Knives) because, as an earth pony, she has access to those increased specialization perks and isn't splitting her stats off to make she she's a capable flier/spellcaster/shaman.

However, given that's purely anecdotal, and as an economist I love me some data analysis, let's look at some hard numbers taken from the What's Your Level? thread that Dance Explosion started. Of the 49 characters among all the players that responded, we have the following:

Earth Pony: 13
Unicorn: 9
Pegasus: 9
Zebra: 6
Alicorn: 4
Gryphon: 3
Buffalo: 1
Other: 4

Showing Earth Ponies as the most popular player race by 44% over the tied runner-ups of Unicorn and Pegasus and a whole 116% more popular than Zebras. So, my question then is, what malaise? If people were viewing Earth Ponies as unplayable, we certainly wouldn't expect to see them as the most played race in this sort of sample size.
Thanqol wrote:EDIT: "Systematizing the unicorn spell list was a terrible idea. Before you came up with that list of unicorn spells my unicorn was able to fly around all the time using telekinesis and now that's totally unviable for no better reason than "Because the rules say so". Magic should be entirely freeform like it was before because a crunch-heavy spell system stifles player creativity."
Similar to what I noted for pegasus magic, this is far from a situation of "Because the rules say so" and entirely a situation of building the setting. If all unicorns could freely fly with telekinesis, why doesn't every unicorn we see in the show or in the book fly? It's fairly universally the superior form of movement and would make perfect sense to do so whenever convenient, yet we never see them do it. Little Pip is, of course, in a unique situation, and the spell includes this exception very clearly for any other ponies in such a situation. While I'll give you it limits player options, it also allows unicorns abilities and limitations to be clearly understood, which is absolutely vital for a functional world. Worth bringing up, I've been in discussions with Viewing Glass to work out some notes for creating custom/altered spells to bring up for discussion at some point (hopefully) in the near future, intended to help allow unicorns to have some more unique options (along very similar lines to the Invention rules) while still keeping them balanced for the system and in-line with the setting.

If you want to build this as an optional addition for groups to decide they want to use, awesome, but I really don't see it having a place in the core of the system.

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Re: Alternate Core Documents

Post by Thanqol » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:20 am

Night Light wrote:You're pretty intensely missing the differentiation between unnecessarily restrictive rules and building a setting. When I say "Because the rules say so" I mean the restriction has been put in place with no benefit to the setting, no necessary mechanical benefit, and (often) flies in the face of opposing logic. Rules that build the setting are vital, rules like how combat works, how social interactions work, how spells work, how building objects works - these are things that must exist for the setting to be understood and interacted with. For instance, pegasus tricks were added as a necessity to explain how pegasus used their unique abilities, helping characters understand and interact with the world. Let's look at the two examples you noted.
There are currently no rules for how building objects work.
Being a good pickpockettakes some notable expertise, a perk requiring you to be able to do it is reasonable. Notably, you can still steal without the Thief perk, you just can't pickpocket - or at least you can't pickpocket without getting spotted as you lack the training. I could see a rule that noted that a pony simply took a penalty to stealth when attempting to pickpocket and tweaking the Thief perk to remove that penalty, but the current implementation works fine to indicate the necessity of training for such an activity.

Putting rules on Barter make sense because it can be extremely difficult for the GM to judge how effective your character's ability to barter should be without it. Roleplaying bartering is one of the biggest wastes of time I've ever seen in a tabletop game and is incredibly inconsistent. Additionally, barter is far from a set "cold, hard" calculation, given the GM can always raise or lower the base price of an item (or of all items in the entire shop/town, such as Tenpony) or give bonuses or penalties to a character's barter, to reflect the area, economy, or merchant disposition.
Sure. There are currently no rules about building things, other than pure 'GM fiat'. It can be extremely difficult for the GM to judge how effective you should be with building stuff, or what exactly 'Earth ponies can create schematics' means without crafting rules. The fact that you are currently exploiting this blank spot in the ruleset does not mean that blank spot should not be filled.
Also, if you call this crunch-heavy, you've got to point me to whatever other systems you've been playing, because this is by far the mathematically simplest set of rules I've ever worked with.
New World of Darkness!

Also, Heroquest, Night's Black Agents, Apocalypse World.
Viewing Glass and Dance Explosion have discussed the power of an Earth Pony specialist and covered this fairly well. Even without taking cybernetics, Mud Pie (an earth pony npc who regularly travels with us in our Stalliongrad game) is one of the most powerful and useful members of our party. I keep her built and run her in combat so Kkat can focus on everything else, and she regularly manages to out-damage and certainly out-utility Night Light (a One Trick Pony using Eldritch Knives) because, as an earth pony, she has access to those increased specialization perks and isn't splitting her stats off to make she she's a capable flier/spellcaster/shaman.
The difference is that in exchange for one perk Mud Pie could be a Unicorn instead, with the exact same build and be able to teleport and walk through walls, or buff/heal himself significantly, even if he never spends a single perk to improve his spellcasting ability. All he'd lose out on is the fourth rank of Tough Hide and +1d10 damage with his favoured weapon.

That sucks.
However, given that's purely anecdotal, and as an economist I love me some data analysis, let's look at some hard numbers taken from the What's Your Level? thread that Dance Explosion started. Of the 49 characters among all the players that responded, we have the following:

Showing Earth Ponies as the most popular player race by 44% over the tied runner-ups of Unicorn and Pegasus and a whole 116% more popular than Zebras. So, my question then is, what malaise? If people were viewing Earth Ponies as unplayable, we certainly wouldn't expect to see them as the most played race in this sort of sample size.
Oh. Well, QED, I guess. Your sample size and statistical methodology are completely flawless.

Question: What do the numbers look like when you remove all the Cyberponies?
Similar to what I noted for pegasus magic, this is far from a situation of "Because the rules say so" and entirely a situation of building the setting. If all unicorns could freely fly with telekinesis, why doesn't every unicorn we see in the show or in the book fly? It's fairly universally the superior form of movement and would make perfect sense to do so whenever convenient, yet we never see them do it. Little Pip is, of course, in a unique situation, and the spell includes this exception very clearly for any other ponies in such a situation.
Oh please, the FOE setting bangs on and on about how Earth Ponies were the master innovators who came up with power armour, guns, and all kinds of industry and there's nothing in place to reflect that. There's an entire Earth Pony Superiority stable and major faction equipped with xyber hueg cybernetics that Earth Ponies are mechanically incapable of creating or maintaining better than an equivalent unicorn (cyber surgeon is a base perk). That same dissonance you're using against me just proves your argument is wrong.
While I'll give you it limits player options, it also allows unicorns abilities and limitations to be clearly understood, which is absolutely vital for a functional world.
Then how does the supposed earth pony affinity with mechanics get clearly understood without this system, or something similar?

GM fiat? GM fiat is awful.
If you want to build this as an optional addition for groups to decide they want to use, awesome, but I really don't see it having a place in the core of the system.
Hey, that's the plan, man. I can't make you guys do anything and I'm not running this show.

But y'know. As long as there's a big void in the crafting rules and the Earth Pony special power to create schematics is so ambiguous and mealy-mouthed then the system's going to be flawed and I do hope you see your ways around to fixing it someday.

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Re: Alternate Core Documents

Post by Night Light » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:22 am

Thanqol wrote:There are currently no rules for how building objects work.

...

Sure. There are currently no rules about building things, other than pure 'GM fiat'. It can be extremely difficult for the GM to judge how effective you should be with building stuff, or what exactly 'Earth ponies can create schematics' means without crafting rules. The fact that you are currently exploiting this blank spot in the ruleset does not mean that blank spot should not be filled.
Erm...
Invention: Characters with sufficient Science skill may attempt to create schematics for new crafted chems or mundane equipment. To create a schematic, the character must have the appropriate level of Science and succeed at a Hard difficulty Science test. Before a character can create a higher-rank schematic, they must possess a schematic of the same item for each lower rank. Chems may be invented using the Medicine skill instead, but at a penalty of -10. Alchemical recipes may also be invented using Survival instead of Science so long as the character has Alchemy perk necessary. (Note: Earth ponies may substitute the Tagged skill associated with their Special Talent for inventions related to their Special Talent.)
Followed by...
Standard Modifications (Mechanics 50): You can modify a vehicle, such as adding armor plating or mounting a weapon. (Mounted weapons require a character at the mount to operate the weapon.) You can build weapons into a new battle saddle, or rebuild an existing battle saddle one with different weapons. You can reinforce combat armor. You can perform a trigger conversion on a weapon. You may modify existing non-powered armor for use by an alicorn with reduced benefit. You can craft an item based on a schematic. Requires tools and a workbench. Time required: 6 hours, halved with a successful moderate Mechanics roll.
Completely allows for invention and creation (and with Earth Ponies being able to invent using their Special Talent, reflecting their creative and innovative nature). GMs and players certainly have to be inventive and system/party-balance minded when the work with new inventions, but that's what player agency (and, ultimately, a tabletop game) is all about.
Thanqol wrote:The difference is that in exchange for one perk Mud Pie could be a Unicorn instead, with the exact same build and be able to teleport and walk through walls, or buff/heal himself significantly, even if he never spends a single perk to improve his spellcasting ability. All he'd lose out on is the fourth rank of Tough Hide and +1d10 damage with his favoured weapon.
Not exactly important, but, she*.

Anyways, you've got a solid argument here and I'll definitely give you that a unicorn can totally ignore their spellcasting perks, skills, and stats and still get some decent benefits, mostly early game. However, especially late game, is the bonus perk, being able to focus one her key stats and skills, and access to unique perks like Bombermare, Years of Apple Bucking, and Healing of the Mother Earth, really going to be counterbalanced by a few Basic spells? My instinct is to say probably not, but this feels more like a "no right answer" sort of question.
Thanqol wrote:Oh. Well, QED, I guess. Your sample size and statistical methodology are completely flawless.

Question: What do the numbers look like when you remove all the Cyberponies?
Numbers removing cyberponies is certainly an excellent question, let me run through that again...

Alright, assuming all earth pony characters that are using cybernetics were noted as such, we get the following:

Non-Cybernetic Earth Pony: 10
Cybernetic Earth Pony: 3
Unicorn: 9
Pegasus: 9
Zebra: 6
Alicorn: 4
Gryphon: 3
Buffalo: 1
Other: 4

Showing Non-cybernetic Earth Ponies as still the most popular player race but only by 11% over Unicorns and Pegasus, and just 67% more popular than Zebras. Though 11% could certainly be within a margin of error, so without any deeper analysis with the sample size we have I'd be more inclined to say that Non-cybernetic Earth Ponies are roughly as popular as Unicorns and Pegasus.
Thanqol wrote:Oh please, the FOE setting bangs on and on about how Earth Ponies were the master innovators who came up with power armour, guns, and all kinds of industry and there's nothing in place to reflect that. There's an entire Earth Pony Superiority stable and major faction equipped with xyber hueg cybernetics that Earth Ponies are mechanically incapable of creating or maintaining better than an equivalent unicorn (cyber surgeon is a base perk). That same dissonance you're using against me just proves your argument is wrong.

...

Then how does the supposed earth pony affinity with mechanics get clearly understood without this system, or something similar?
Power armor and all energy weapons/technology are notably a fusion of earth pony ingenuity and unicorn magic. Anyways, perks/abilities to reflect being masters of innovation:

Invention: As noted above, earth ponies can always invent something related to their special talent by using their associated skill, which is completely unique.
Earth Pony Magic (Artisan): Absolutely indicates an amazing talent for industry, given even if their factories or machines have a critical failure (especially important in the early days of a technological revolution) they have a very real possibility of suffering no setbacks.
Raise That Barn: This alone can explain why earth ponies are the masters of industry and why Stable 101 was able to create Cybernetics while no one else could. A team of, say, 10 earth ponies (a reasonable number for an engineering research lab), each working with 3 ranks of this perk, would function like a team of 40 ponies all working on the same project. Meaning that in 100 years they would accomplish what it would take a similarly sized group of pegasus or unicorns (or any other race) 400 years to complete, which can easily explain hyper advanced technology like Cybernetics.
Ah' Fixed It and Gears of Harmony: Between Ah' Fixed It and Gears of Harmony, these two perks allow earth ponies to have an affinity with mechanics unmatched by any other race in the wasteland. They can use technology that no other pony could, find uses for items other ponies would see as trash, and create unparalleled armor and weaponry.

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Re: Alternate Core Documents

Post by Thanqol » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:51 am

Night Light wrote:Erm...
Invention: Characters with sufficient Science skill may attempt to create schematics for new crafted chems or mundane equipment. To create a schematic, the character must have the appropriate level of Science and succeed at a Hard difficulty Science test. Before a character can create a higher-rank schematic, they must possess a schematic of the same item for each lower rank. Chems may be invented using the Medicine skill instead, but at a penalty of -10. Alchemical recipes may also be invented using Survival instead of Science so long as the character has Alchemy perk necessary. (Note: Earth ponies may substitute the Tagged skill associated with their Special Talent for inventions related to their Special Talent.)
Later on in the invention rules it specifically says 'Work out with your GM how it works and what the costs are'.
Followed by...
Standard Modifications (Mechanics 50): You can modify a vehicle, such as adding armor plating or mounting a weapon. (Mounted weapons require a character at the mount to operate the weapon.) You can build weapons into a new battle saddle, or rebuild an existing battle saddle one with different weapons. You can reinforce combat armor. You can perform a trigger conversion on a weapon. You may modify existing non-powered armor for use by an alicorn with reduced benefit. You can craft an item based on a schematic. Requires tools and a workbench. Time required: 6 hours, halved with a successful moderate Mechanics roll.
All that stuff is modification, except 'craft an item based on a schematic'. The Earth pony special ability rests on them being able to create schematics. Where are the mechanics for that? Specifically under the 'GM fiat' entry.
Not exactly important, but, she*.

Anyways, you've got a solid argument here and I'll definitely give you that a unicorn can totally ignore their spellcasting perks, skills, and stats and still get some decent benefits, mostly early game. However, especially late game, is the bonus perk, being able to focus one her key stats and skills, and access to unique perks like Bombermare, Years of Apple Bucking, and Healing of the Mother Earth, really going to be counterbalanced by a few Basic spells? My instinct is to say probably not, but this feels more like a "no right answer" sort of question.
Bombermare is surprisingly ineffective if you're not going for a high luck build because at the point where you get it you've also generally got Explosives 100, meaning it only has relevance for criticals or critical failures. Also explosives rarely need to target specific body parts.

Years of Applebucking is +1d10 damage, let's not be romantic about how interesting that is in the grand scheme of things. There are plenty of substitute perks available at that level.

Healing of Mother Earth is neat, I'll give you.
Showing Non-cybernetic Earth Ponies as still the most popular player race but only by 11% over Unicorns and Pegasus, and just 67% more popular than Zebras. Though 11% could certainly be within a margin of error, so without any deeper analysis with the sample size we have I'd be more inclined to say that Non-cybernetic Earth Ponies are roughly as popular as Unicorns and Pegasus.
The sample size and methodology is still so flawed that any statistical conclusions that you draw from that are deeply suspect. More research is needed and that only gives the numbers of earth ponies in existence.
Power armor and all energy weapons/technology are notably a fusion of earth pony ingenuity and unicorn magic. Anyways, perks/abilities to reflect being masters of innovation:

Invention: As noted above, earth ponies can always invent something related to their special talent by using their associated skill, which is completely unique.
Yahuh, but that's not niche protected even slightly.
Earth Pony Magic (Artisan): Absolutely indicates an amazing talent for industry, given even if their factories or machines have a critical failure (especially important in the early days of a technological revolution) they have a very real possibility of suffering no setbacks.
'Less chance of crit failing' isn't really very cool. And let's be straight, this is about coolness.
Raise That Barn: This alone can explain why earth ponies are the masters of industry and why Stable 101 was able to create Cybernetics while no one else could. A team of, say, 10 earth ponies (a reasonable number for an engineering research lab), each working with 3 ranks of this perk, would function like a team of 40 ponies all working on the same project. Meaning that in 100 years they would accomplish what it would take a similarly sized group of pegasus or unicorns (or any other race) 400 years to complete, which can easily explain hyper advanced technology like Cybernetics.
Of virtually no use to a player character wandering the wastes, unfortunately.
Ah' Fixed It and Gears of Harmony: Between Ah' Fixed It and Gears of Harmony, these two perks allow earth ponies to have an affinity with mechanics unmatched by any other race in the wasteland. They can use technology that no other pony could, find uses for items other ponies would see as trash, and create unparalleled armor and weaponry.
Sure, that's kind of neat, but it's also extremely underwhelming. Gears of Harmony is 'slightly better loot, ability to use machines at GM Fiat'. Ah Fixed It is +2 DT, and let's not wax romantic about how interesting +2 DT is. These are very boring abilities with no room for customization. The abilities aren't bad, they're just presented in very boring ways.

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Thanqol
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Re: Alternate Core Documents

Post by Thanqol » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:07 am

Here's an alternate way of phrasing this whole thing:

Niche Protection.

Niche protection is incredibly important in roleplaying games. If I'm playing a spy then I should be the best spy in the party. If I'm playing a techie I should be the best techie in the party. The spy shouldn't be able to do an equally good job at being a techie as the dedicated techie. That's niche protection - a sphere of influence the character has dominance in.

Earth Ponies currently don't have a strongly marked niche. In practice everything they can do can often be equaled by Unicorns or pegasus ponies because they rely so heavily on the Base perk list. At best they can be slightly better in a niche than another race, but only slightly (compare an earth pony mechanic to an Imbuing-focused Unicorn). Their only protected niche is in 'being a cyborg', and that's a niche of limited appeal. Earth Ponies are often fluffed at being 'good at mechanics' but their only unique ability, the ability to "Create schematics" is so vague as to be barely a thing and is easy to stomp over with other races.

Pegasus ponies have the niche of 'airspace'. Unicorns have the niche of 'Magic'. Zebras have the niche of 'Alchemy/Shamanism'. Earth Ponies have no clear niche because all their 'mechanics' stuff is either really boring or 'cyberpony'.

This is a problem that needs to be addressed in some form or another. My idea is one possible interpretation but it's not the only way forwards. At the end of the day, everyone needs a niche where they are king, otherwise they will be overshadowed by their party members.

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Re: Alternate Core Documents

Post by Viewing_Glass » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:39 pm

Actually, being able to invent things isn't what makes Earth Ponies flashy or good. What makes Earth Ponies flashy or good is the fact they flat out have more perks to become the best at what they do.

Don't believe me?

In order for a Unicorn to be good at magic, they have to spend at least two perks and have an INT of at least 8. That is to simply master they first set of spells they get.

In order for a Pegasus to be gain the full benefits of flight, they need to spend three perks (four if you count getting Flight 1 for free) and have a 9 Agility. That doesn't even count the three other perks they need for their unique form of Magic, Pegasus Tricks.

In order for a Zebra to be good at Alchemy and Shamanism they need to spend a trait and 4 perks and also have a decent charisma.

Those are just for the items you mentioned in regards to 'Niche Protection'. If you count any of the racial perks that support that, well, then those numbers change to continue to favor the Earth Pony. That same Earth Pony who doesn't have to worry about any sort of 'Niche Protection', can feel free to spend their one free perk plus the perks they didn't have to spend on their Niche to become truly awesome specialists.

Oh, and as for Mechanics being boring? Red Button, the Earth Pony Mechanic has done the following:
  • Invented a flying car.
  • Invented a harness that lets her fly a RAPTOR by herself (this usually requires a crew of 6 to 8 pegasi).
  • Invented several modifications to weapons, including a way to mount a Ripper on a Helmet.
  • Is currently working on a Toaster Death Ray.
And those are just the ones that I can think of.
Thanqol wrote:This is a problem that needs to be addressed in some form or another. My idea is one possible interpretation but it's not the only way forwards. At the end of the day, everyone needs a niche where they are king, otherwise they will be overshadowed by their party members.
Actually, that is a problem that falls flat on the face of the GM. It will always be possible for one party member to be overshadowed in a table top game. Unless the GM is keeping an eye on things, then that will always be a problem. Putting forth a special Niche for Earth Ponies won't solve that problem. I mean, what happens when you have a party that is made up of only one race? Then Niche Protection doesn't mean anything, and you are back to the same problem.

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Re: Alternate Core Documents

Post by EDtiGron » Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:09 pm

Side note:
Viewing_Glass wrote:In order for a Unicorn to be good at magic, they have to spend at least two perks and have an INT of at least 8. That is to simply master they first set of spells they get.
That's not even remotely true. I built a unicorn with an 8 INT at first level thus using no perks. It's even possible to build one with maxed INT and END by dumping the other stats, it's not recommended, but still possible.

And, on the topic of arbitrary rules restrictions, What make cybernetics only work with EP physiology? Now, creating and installing implants I can see no problem, but if EPs are balanced with the other races because of the number of perks that they have (and for the sake of the question, we'll assume they are whether true or not) to the point that some even say that they can outshine the other races in those areas, why do they need the cyberpony perks all to themselves? If they are balanced with the others, then how would opening the perks up to the other races screw up said balance?
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