Opening up Unicorn progression paths...

[Viewing_Glass]

The thing about this is, strain is already a nonfactor, usually. Out of all my groups I've almost never seen a unicorn actually in burnout territory, except for my original unicorn at higher levels. She never actually reached burnout, but she did get within one spellcast of the risk, and even then it was only after casting multiple spells with a strain cost of 30+, along with a Mighty Spell'd 25 strain spell (So 37), in a situation of vastly prolonged activity.

Early on Strain can be a little bit restrictive, but even a halfway decent night's sleep will replenish 100 strain, which is pretty much a complete reset for your first 10 levels, give or take maybe 20 or so strain.

So... I don't think it's solely a problem of recovery.

Plus, if high-level recovery was boosted to be more scaling, then there would be no such thing as burnout, with the way the current mechanics are working.

Hrm...this becomes an interesting difference. I would say the current strain recovery system actually does work, however it differs depending on your stats (considering your total strain is based on your END and INT scores). With my wizard-like unicorn with a high END (10 base, 12 with Alter Phys at Expert) and high INT (9 base, 11 with Alter Phys at Expert), he has 490ish strain at level 18. 10 levels ago, when he didn't have the spell boosting his strain capacity and half the above strain, a good night's sleep was all he needed.

However, as you get higher in level, I find more and more that you aren't going to have the time to get rested. Of course, the experience with your GM may vary.

[EDIT] In addition, burn out still is a problem. Some spells are extremely useful...but require a lot of strain. Like, say, teleporting your friends around the Wasteland because you find out a bomb is going to go off in 15 minutes and it would take you 20 to get there...

[SilverlightPony]

That reminds me, when exactly did allowing SPECIAL stats to go above 10 become a thing? In the Fallout games (at least the ones I've played) they had a hard max of 10, and in those games you're generally alone or with questionably helpful companions. In a PNP game you've got characters controlled by other actual players backing you up and hopefully offsetting any of your shortcomings, making maxed-out stats even less important.

[Viewing_Glass]

To be fair, only Alter Physiology (at expert) and cybernetics can break the stat cap (along with certain other traits/perks). Drugs can do so as well, but that is to make drugs appealing to everyone, not just those with lower stats.

However, weren't we focusing on Unicorns here?

[Lost_Art]

Well what do ponies think of my Provident Spell idea? Which would allow for unicorn characters who could use their magic more often than their guns rather than reserving it for big hits and walloping massive effects?

The strain issue is a more contentious one:

The thing about this is, strain is already a nonfactor, usually. Out of all my groups I've almost never seen a unicorn actually in burnout territory, except for my original unicorn at higher levels. She never actually reached burnout, but she did get within one spellcast of the risk, and even then it was only after casting multiple spells with a strain cost of 30+, along with a Mighty Spell'd 25 strain spell (So 37), in a situation of vastly prolonged activity.

Early on Strain can be a little bit restrictive, but even a halfway decent night's sleep will replenish 100 strain, which is pretty much a complete reset for your first 10 levels, give or take maybe 20 or so strain.

So... I don't think it's solely a problem of recovery.

Plus, if high-level recovery was boosted to be more scaling, then there would be no such thing as burnout, with the way the current mechanics are working.

The example there being of a decent nights sleep being 100 strains worth, but 100 strain is only 5x 20 strain castings per day at around middle level, which one could go through in one single encounter. Imagine only being able to fire your gun 5 times a day.

I suppose the issue of strain recovery has a lot to do with exactly how much your Unicorn uses their magic, whether its used as a sprinkle of extra punch or used more regularly for the character concept. If anything its even more call for there to be more flexibility in how Unicorns use their magic with things like Provident Spell, and I do like the alternate Resilient Horn perk posted here.

[TyrannisUmbra]

Well what do ponies think of my Provident Spell idea? Which would allow for unicorn characters who could use their magic more often than their guns rather than reserving it for big hits and walloping massive effects?

I'm not really sure how I feel about it, honestly. It's... alright, but it just feels... a little boring.

I'm not exactly sure Provident Spell would do what you describe in just that way. I don't think "more often" is really a factor of strain. AP is what limits frequency of casting in the short term (Which I've always believed should be worked out on a spell-by-spell basis), while strain is for determining how much you can cast before needing to just stop and give it a break. Which brings me to my next bit:

The example there being of a decent nights sleep being 100 strains worth, but 100 strain is only 5x 20 strain castings per day at around middle level, which one could go through in one single encounter. Imagine only being able to fire your gun 5 times a day.

I suppose the issue of strain recovery has a lot to do with exactly how much your Unicorn uses their magic, whether its used as a sprinkle of extra punch or used more regularly for the character concept. If anything its even more call for there to be more flexibility in how Unicorns use their magic with things like Provident Spell, and I do like the alternate Resilient Horn perk posted here.

I probably should have mentioned in my previous post that the unicorn I used as my example of the only one who's ever been close to burnout that I've seen was built to be a pure caster (And one of the reasons why I campaigned so heavily in the past for tweaks to old unicorn magic. Back then, a pure caster just wasn't a very viable option). She operated for the most part just fine on that +100 strain per sleep (which is not 100 per day -- you still gain 5 per every hour while adventuring in the worst case, which does add up to something moderately helpful), except for a few select moments where the characters had a lot of extended combat/adventuring without a break.

And... in all honesty, I don't think it SHOULD be possible to operate on only your strain regen without any reserve. Strain is supposed to be your longterm endurance, essentially. If you're sitting at no reserve strain, I imagine in all likelihood your unicorn would be experiencing extreme headaches and other signs of severe exhaustion -- which is a perfect way to describe having no strain reserve. If you're relying on only your regeneration per day to keep your spells running, you're magically exhausted and you NEED to rest. Trying to operate under those conditions without taking time off to rest is like if somepony ran a marathon to the point of near-collapse, then proceeded to keep jogging every day without even a day to take a breather.

Those 5 20-strain spells are still very taxing to a unicorn.

I do like the idea of maybe lessening the impact casting has on Strain via a perk, or increasing your magical endurance (ie strain) via perks, but I don't know if regen should be increased to the point where it's not a severe limiting factor. So, I think I'm against the proposed change to resilient horn, but for some kind of variation of the provident spell thing. I think I'd rather it be something a bit more fun to play with, though I'm honestly not sure how to accomplish that. As a basic idea, the current proposed Provident Spell is certainly perfectly serviceable.

[Viewing_Glass]

I don't know. Currently playing the 'pure caster' unicorn (the only perk I have taken that wasn't related to gaining more spells is Zen Casting), I can say that the problems we are facing at level 18 aren't generally solveable on 100 strain from rest alone. Heck, if it wasn't for the Spirit of Magic cloak (providing +5 Strain per hour and should I burn out, I only need 75% of my strain back before burn out ends) that was made for me by another party member (a zebra shaman), I would have either burnt out OR several party members would have died. Probably both.

Even with the cloak, I still find that my character is continuously running out of strain. Teleporting myself and 3-6 others (Strain cost of 60-90 WITH Zen Casting) is incredibly expensive (almost 1/5th my total strain), which makes sense, cause Teleport is easily one of the best spells in the game. And for almost 8 sessions running, my character was proving transport via teleportation for the entire group. Heck, for 2 of those sessions, he was providing Rad Guard at...Advanced?

This also doesn't cover the rest of his spells he provides for the group on a daily basis:

Alter Physiology, Expert (+2 to AGI and END), cast with a Power of Friendship. Cost: 40 Strain. Duration, 18 hours (using the 16 hour day).

Heighten Senses, Expert (+6 to PER, can not break cap). Duration, 6 hours. This is cast three times per day per friends. Cost: 120 Strain

So, in order to help his friends, this is costing him 160 strain, base. This doesn't even cover any of his other spells he casts throughout the day depending on what is encountered (Such as the 10 Arcane Blasts at Expert when fighting a dragon or the 2 more when fighting a friend's nemesis...and yes, that was all on the same day).

This is why I am unimpressed, to put it mildly, with the current version of Resilient Horn. Its lack luster and doesn't even match the strain cost of some Advanced Spells, much less Expert. And it doesn't make you anymore resilient against the only thing that can truly shut down a Unicorn's magic (outside of cutting off a horn)... burnout.

In regards to Provident Spell, I did realize that there was going to be one problem with it. If we keep it matching to Mighty Spell (and this might be already covered with what you talked about earlier), it will only effect Basic level spells. I don't think that was intended by you Lost, but I might be wrong.

[EDIT] Realized I had a bit of miscellaneous info that wasn't necessary. Trimmed that down.

[TyrannisUmbra]

I don't know. Currently playing the 'pure caster' unicorn (the only perk I have taken that wasn't related to gaining more spells is Zen Casting), I can say that the problems we are facing at level 18 aren't generally solveable on 100 strain from rest alone. Heck, if it wasn't for the Spirit of Magic cloak (providing +5 Strain per hour and should I burn out, I only need 75% of my strain back before burn out ends) that was made for me by another party member (a zebra shaman), I would have either burnt out OR several party members would have died. Probably both.

...

I think part of the reason why you're running into a lot more problems than I was is the schools and way you play -- you look like you're running a buff-support unicorn, and are trying to keep every single one of your spells active all the time. This... isn't really feasible, I don't think. If you count the number of spells you're casting, you SHOULD be burning out by casting so many Expert level spells. At between 20-30 expert spells being cast on a daily basis, your unicorn should definitely be having trouble keeping up with 'demand'. Just because you can cast a bunch of buffs on everypony all the time, doesn't mean you should.

Not to mention that full-party teleports are supposed to be expensive for the entire reason of preventing you from using it as a mode of quick transportation unless in an extreme emergency.

For a comparison, my pure-caster unicorn is an Illusion/Defense/Offense spec. She has one spell she keeps active on her friends at all times, and that's Bulwark of Friendship (which has an effectively negligable cost given its duration). In addition, she also has Mental Bulwark that she casts when necessary -- which is surprisingly infrequently, though your mileage may vary. Her illusion spells and her shield spell see much more use though, with anywhere between 5 and 10 spells from either school a day, which are NOT all Expert level spells. The average cost is roughly 25, but varies widely from as low as 15 to as high as 50. She utilizes her 3 offense spells sparingly, but one of them /is/ Mighty Spell'd.

And the most important part? After each big encounter, the group made sure to rest up for at least a day, and get everypony back up to as close to full strength as they can within that time.

I think the biggest difference is that your unicorn has a stance of, "I have to cast /all/ these spells as much as I can", while mine has more of a stance of "I have to cast these spells when the party really needs it". By far, her most common spell cast was not any of her buff spells, but instead was her shield.

I'd think it would make much more sense for your unicorn to have perks that reduced strain cost of spells than it would to allow more regeneration of strain. It takes more for you to become exhausted, not takes less time to recover from complete exhaustion.

[Viewing_Glass]

I would have counted Bulwark of Friendship and Bonds of Friendship against my wizard character's strain regeneration, but you nailed it on the head. With a duration like that it is fire and forget.

To be fair, that would be what we do, if it wasn't for the fact that the world keeps moving if we decide to rest, and the rest of the group can't sit and wait for my character to regenerate strain just because he spent it all buffing them. I do know that without those buffs, at least one pony would have died.

It only takes one sniper using a missile launcher to make you realize how important spotting is.

And to be fair, my unicorn gets called on quite a bit more than most because of his wide spell selection. He has every spell set unlocked and at least three spells from each set. It means NPC and PC alike are asking 'Hey, can you take care of this?' and he is happy to help.

As for group teleports only being used for emergencies, well...the campaign my character is in is has been under some form of time limit since level 10. Its put a considerable amount of pressure on all our characters, and caused every hour to count.

So, while I will say that having lower strain cost on the spells (its why I picked up Power of Friendship...otherwise the Expert Alter Physiology on all my character's friends would run 120-180 strain!), I can say that lowering the cost at the expense of potency is risky. I would definitely want to see something like that in play before giving full judgement.

[TyrannisUmbra]

I can definitely understand being on a strict time limit. G9 was one of those groups that couldn't stop for anypony, and it showed on all of us. We were always missing some health, and barely were able to even keep up with maintaining supplies. And it's definitely a good reason to be spending all that strain, but in that case, your unicorn is hardly a normal case to base off of

[Lost_Art]

What I would think about is what if somepony wanted to One Trick Pony one of those 5, 20 strain spells. The whole idea of One Trick Pony is that you know one basic level spell only but you are master of it, able to do things other Unicorns cant even if they have the same spell. At the moment all OTP amounts to is granting access to the Mighty Spell perks, and all they do is offer you a chance to blow through your strain quicker.

Wouldn't it make sense for there to be other ways to show mastery and focus of a spell than just casting it really really hard? Like casting it cheaper or more efficiently. However just handing out reduced strain costs without a downside is over powered, the Zen Casting perk offers reduced strain at the cost of AP and susceptibility to distraction. Surely there is something else that can be sacrificed that results in a pony who knows how to do that one spell backwards and can flick it out whenever with intensely practiced skill.

Dont forget the Spread Thin trait, which lowers potency to grant versatility, my proposal is simply for lowered strain cost without sacrificing AP.