Tier-based Weapon List

[uSea]

Howdy all! The Alternate Core Documents thread has been getting cluttered by posts about the Tier-based list as it undergoes revisions and that isn't really fair on the many groups who use other weapon lists.

So I'm making this thread so we can talk about changes and discuss ideas without getting in the way of people interested in the Alternate Core Docs.

Here are some links:

The Tier-arranged Weapon List

Comparison Charts
(with auto-updating formulas! Make a copy and stick numbers in for yourself!)

Change List
This gets updated when I remember, but the actual working out of stuff happens on the comparison charts.

For a simple look at how the revised weapons stack up against each other you can check these links:
T1 vs Example Enemies
T2 vs Example Enemies
T3 vs Example Enemies
T4 vs Example Enemies

[uSea]

First post! Here is some content:

As per requests the few melee weapons that were going to use fractions like 1.5xSTR have been adjusted so that full STR values are used and no rounding needs to happen.

The 12.7mm SMG has been added to T4 (thanks to Radmelon for spotting that) and the .45 SMG is being moved down to T3, since we lacked SMGs in that price range.

Also the Hunting Shotgun and Riot Shotgun have swapped places, and the Combat Shotgun is being added at T4.


While talking about shotguns I’d like to propose a rule change to greatly simplify buckshot's damage fall off mechanic. Currently a d10 is lost every Yard past Short range and damage is halved past Medium. It was the first thing I thought of when trying to emulate the ineffectiveness of the Fallout video game shotguns at range but it's needlessly complex and could do with an update.

The change:
Shotguns only deal half damage to targets past Short range.
Shotguns ignore 5 DT from targets at Point Blank range.

This would be much simpler than my original idea and means shotgun damage can move away from the 5 x d10 system I had before. I’ve adjusted the numbers to use only 2 d10’s and the resulting damage will be a lot less random. In addition, the base damage ends up as nice even numbers so it would be very easy to halve them if firing at a Medium range target.

e.g. Caravan Shotgun 40++ for 35AP (20+ if past Short range)
Riot Shotgun 36++ for 20AP (18+ if past Short range)
(You can check the change list for more examples or look at the comparison chart.)

The -5 DT ignore at Point Blank is something I really really liked from TenMihara’s weapon list.
It promotes and rewards characters for using a shotgun when up close and personal and helps to mitigate Buckshot’s major weakness: DT. It stacks well with Shotgun Surgeon but it also makes that perk less of a requirement, especially at early levels. The military Combat Shotgun, being designed to deal with targets wearing body armour, could ignore 10 DT within Point Blank.


If anyone has feedback about these suggested changes or any of the others, or wishes to share their weapon/mod/ammo ideas then please post here! I'd love to hear them.

[Viewing_Glass]

I might suggest that Mad_Modd's Melee mods, as this allows the GMs to give flavor to the type of mod for a individual mod. I am listing them here for your benefit:

Sharpened/Weighted - Benefit: 1d10 - 1/4 cost of the modded weapon. If the weapon is unmodded, its just the cost of the weapon.
Balanced - Benefit: +5 to hit, +5 to Parry - 1/3 cost of the modded weapon. If the weapon is unmodded, its just the cost of the weapon.
Tempered - Benefit: Gives 50% chance to ignore an increment of Weapon Degradation when suffering a Critical Fail. - 1/2 cost of the modded weapon. If the weapon is unmodded, its just the cost of the weapon.

Also, as much as I like the new shotgun rules (And they are AWESOME), if they are implemented is there a reason to use melee weapons, if you could use a shotgun instead?

[Kkat]

Gave out the first Supercharged Solaris Hoof last night. This should be fun.

I still think the Katana should be returned to it's old damage. Question: is there anybody who would want to use the katana as their weapon of choice with the new version?

[Godna]

I would, but the Zebra sword looks like I might use it on a character with tighter perks.

[Viewing_Glass]

The reduction of damage on the Katana is 5. This would make a Katana 2xAGI+25+1d10 as opposed to 2xAGI+30+1d10. For a 20 AP weapon, that's not that bad a change. Sure, they aren't that great in damage, but they are low cost T4 melee weapons. At the lowest cost, they shouldn't do the most damage. I am fine with this weapon with the reduction. It also, with the melee mods I posted, would be good, much cheaper candidates to mod.

[uSea]

Also, as much as I like the new shotgun rules (And they are AWESOME), if they are implemented is there a reason to use melee weapons, if you could use a shotgun instead?

When I'm not being distracted by Bioshock I plan to look at the melee weapons again with the updated shotguns in mind (assuming the idea is generally liked) and a new insight into the upper realms of DT that the T3/T4 weapons are likely to face. Generally a fast weapon should fair worse than a slower weapon against armoured targets but with some adjustments they should still be worth using. And then if they happen to find something with low DT but lots of health they can go all blender-mode.

I like those mods you posted too. Mad_Modd has done some really cool things that I'll look to absorb.

[DamnfoolBrony]

Just as a tiny correction for the sake of accuracy, the "Anti-Material" rifle should be named the "Anti-Materiel" rifle, as the word "materiel" refers to military equipment such as radios and truck engines. A rifle of the type built to disable said materiel from afar is what the gigantic .50 Cal. firing rifle from Fallout: New Vegas is based off of, and what I assume the weapon on the list has also been derived from.

If not, then I'm just talking out my ass. >_>

That said, I find your lack of a big, balloon-mounted Anti-Machine rifle... disturbing. :3

[Dance_Explosion]

Well in the realm of melee weapons, as i play a melee main pony as my primary character, i have to say that the -5 to the katana's damage makes it very un appealing, granted the game i am in has a larger focus on high DT enemies, like steel rangers, and ghouls made of stone, so high DT is more of a factor to me.

My only real suggestion then is to: label the melee weapons with ap cost of base 20 or less as a "light" melee weapon.
Give the light weapons a penalty, something like, against medium armor they are treated as if the pony in the med armor had +5 DT, and heavy armor as if it had +10DT, that should help limit the damage of high speed blades vs anyone in strong armor, but this of course does not apply to high DT monsters, since they can simply have high HP to soak the damage or what ever, its really a DM call anyway.

that way its possible to scale the 4-6 attacks a light weapon can throw out in a round with harder armor reducing the damage, granted that is only if you still feel that melee needs this kind of nerf, barring the seemingly rare "ninja" ponies [like me ] most people carry a melee weapon to use if they run out of ammo, don't have time to reload, or for utility, as it is, purely as side weapons. And frankly i feel that melee weapons need more of a damage buff and not these kinds of nerfs since they are far from being broken and are mostly just not used by players.

Now about that change to shotguns... now, granted i would like to turn a teir 1 weapon into the best anti steel ranger gun pre tier 4, and i find the idea that all of a sudden steel rangers every were will be getting killed by teams of 2-3 ponies armed with single shot shotguns and sneak attacking them for hundreds of damage each as that fancy, and expensive, power armor fails to stop even a third of the damage from the armor shredding blasts of shotguns. And the only real downside of is that if some one stands more then 50 feet away, they will need to spend 15 ap to draw another weapon, of just move closer to keep shooting.


So yes, i strongly disagree with that change to shotguns as it completely breaks them against everything that is ever inside short range, which i may add, makes the point in splitting skill points to have a melee weapon utterly pointless since the power and convinced of a shot gun makes it a worthless choice. granted a shot is loud, but so is a chain saw, and a power hoof.

[SilverlightPony]

Just as a tiny correction for the sake of accuracy, the "Anti-Material" rifle should be named the "Anti-Materiel" rifle, as the word "materiel" refers to military equipment such as radios and truck engines.

The Fallout Anti-Materiel Rifle is equivalent to the Fallout: Equestria Anti-Machine Rifle, and only the latter should appear in FoE PNP.