Alternate Core Documents

[Dance_Explosion]

Well i was making it AP light, which still stacks with piercing hoof, so that it was still effected by leviathan hide, as it was noted in the story that she needed the hound helm to fight for a while.

[Viewing_Glass]

True! But even against leviathan hide, her attacks would be mostly ineffective without the hellhound helmet. 35 DT > Bare Hoof.

[Ghostpony]

Oi! For 2 weeks I try to get ya all engaged. Then I wander off to run errands and ya run rampant!

Ok starting off Dance:
Skipping arts for a moment and dealing with NPC's as a GM I can answer the question why isnt my master doing it quick and easy. Master could be a 90 year old pony who would break like a twig if he took a hit. Master could be blind or crippled in some way, still able to teach but otherwise unable to do the task.

A PC is be definition a hero, has the bravery, guts or will to do what other ponies will not do or cant. They march into the undefeatable and face it down. They are the ones for what ever reason take risks others are unwilling to. Thats why they are heros; just like the real life hero's who exist.

As for a large EP pony army going up against pegasi or unicorns all I can say is Pegasi in the show can form tornadoes. Armies cant fight that. Before Celestia and Luna apparently the unicorns worked as a group to raise and lower the sun. I don't think a large army would be the answer. It would make an interesting topic to discuss some time but isn't the focus here.

Now on to the art forms.

None of the forms is race specific except the one for EPs. Taking a trait to start with the form in stead of having it as a quest perk was made racial to reflect the cultural origin of the form. IE a earth pony could learn Fallen Caesar but he would need to get the base training as a quest perk.

Cutting down on perks for the sake of cutting down on perks doesn't sit well with me. I know some ponies seem to have issues with the idea of a lot of perks but I personally disagree. This comes from the opinion that the more perks their are the more each character will be a diverse and different individual. If I have two gun bunny ponies I want enough different perks that they wont necessarily be a carbon copy of each other on paper.

Take away the need for a quest perk or a trait to take the perk line? If you do that it just becomes another basic set of perks on the list takeable by anypony and would therefore need to match the power level of perks at the level it could be taken as. With the requirement of a quest perk or trait spent on it you need to ether sacrifice one of your two starting traits or earn it in game doing quests for some npc. Having put real effort into gaining it the quest perk line being more powerful than regular perks makes more sense.

Paralyzing Hoof: Your unarmed strikes have a (AGI * 3) chance to paralyze a target for 5 rounds. Vs Unarmed attacks now have a chance to paralyze your target gets END -2 check, for 5 turns (does not stack with paralyzing hoof) Im not sure what you find confusing. The version I put in means that ever attack causes the target to roll against END at -2 or suffer paralysis for 5 turns. In retrospect looking at the non Madd Mod perk list and instead looking at the regular list that was to powerful for its level.

As for cutting down the number of perks a lot of the feed back does seem to resolve around the number of perks and it being to many. Cutting it down to 5 how ever I think is making things come a bit to fast. How about a compromise at 6 perks?

When I put in the pre reqs I was thinking Mad Modd skill progression which does go much faster at low levels then regular skills. My bad on that.

I have put the revisions on the sheet as Fallen Ceaser Style 2.0
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... R0E#gid=23


Dimestream: Xenith according to the base perk list only needed 2 perks to be a master alchemist to go with the skill. Alchemy is the single simplest race magic to master in the game. So she would have had plenty of perks to spend on being a master of Fallen Caesar as written. Also I know plenty of players who spend all there perks building up one skill. Still I did see what you were getting at.

And lastly Finesse is a +4% crit chance. This + to crit is only for sneak attacks I think Dance may have missed that or forgotten to specify. Because as a GM I would spit my bit at the concept of some one getting that big a + to all crit chances.

The perks are not zebra only, though zebra's get them with much less effort.


And for every pony do you think 2.0 is more to everyponies liking?

[Dance_Explosion]

Well ghost, i have to say still, i really don't think that most players will want to dump half their perks into one thing like that, there is a lot of great perks. Granted your perk system seems to be built for what is effectively a different system as is anyway. I built my own perk system for the main doc and balanced it based off Usea's weapons, and the general perk list linked from that doc.

Modd's lists and rules are extremely different and i do not know a whole lot about them so i really can't speak to balance and how good/bad they are then.

The perks you are building are to make "punching guy" the thing for the character, defining their role as a unarmed damage dealing type, and there is nothing wrong with that.

The perks i designed were to make unarmed/melee more viable to be done as a primary form of combat, but are there as perks to support the character, and to make zebra's more interesting for a player to play, and not just really good merchants to sell the players potions and enchant gear for them since there is no reason to play a zebra unless you want to craft stuff and not have good perks. And im saying that as a player who has only played zebra's and wrote the rules for zebra shamanism!

[Dimestream]

And lastly Finesse is a +4% crit chance. This + to crit is only for sneak attacks I think Dance may have missed that or forgotten to specify. Because as a GM I would spit my bit at the concept of some one getting that big a + to all crit chances.

I'm aware that Finesse was only +4% hence why I was saying even a 5% is better. Having it be ONLY on sneak attacks (making the base 30 a 40) is much more reasonable. *scowls at Dance*

I still think that there's too many "what ifs" in here. Why COULDN'T the master of this style be a young and spry character. If it's not zebra only, why can't it be, say, a sixteen-year-old griffon? It's very much unbalanced for a griffon to take (since you start with higher damage and can gain bleed effects). And there's nothing preventing a filly master of a style. Heck, a filly might master the style over the course of a game. Having the need for high-level NPCs kicking around is still a danger zone I agree with Dance on.

Also, my issue with the number of perks isn't "just the number of perks." It's the staggering power level of your original set. Even the revised version is straight-up too powerful in comparison to other perks. Each of these chain perks is REALLY good, especially in comparison to other perks at their levels. Too good. Reducing them to the level we outlined keeps them attractive, interesting, and powerful. But not overwhelming.

Lastly, I am distraught to hear that you are basing this entire idea on Mad Modd's system. I thought we were designing something to go with the base rules? I can't balance this in my mind at all when using Modd's unwieldy skills and weapons sub-rule things.

[Ghostpony]

Well ghost, i have to say still, i really don't think that most players will want to dump half their perks into one thing like that, there is a lot of great perks. Granted your perk system seems to be built for what is effectively a different system as is anyway. I built my own perk system for the main doc and balanced it based off Usea's weapons, and the general perk list linked from that doc.

Modd's lists and rules are extremely different and i do not know a whole lot about them so i really can't speak to balance and how good/bad they are then.

The perks you are building are to make "punching guy" the thing for the character, defining their role as a unarmed damage dealing type, and there is nothing wrong with that.

The perks i designed were to make unarmed/melee more viable to be done as a primary form of combat, but are there as perks to support the character, and to make zebra's more interesting for a player to play, and not just really good merchants to sell the players potions and enchant gear for them since there is no reason to play a zebra unless you want to craft stuff and not have good perks. And im saying that as a player who has only played zebra's and wrote the rules for zebra shamanism!

Um I screwed up and the revisions were on the wrong sheet. Try looking now.

[Ghostpony]

And lastly Finesse is a +4% crit chance. This + to crit is only for sneak attacks I think Dance may have missed that or forgotten to specify. Because as a GM I would spit my bit at the concept of some one getting that big a + to all crit chances.

I'm aware that Finesse was only +4% hence why I was saying even a 5% is better. Having it be ONLY on sneak attacks (making the base 30 a 40) is much more reasonable. *scowls at Dance*

I still think that there's too many "what ifs" in here. Why COULDN'T the master of this style be a young and spry character. If it's not zebra only, why can't it be, say, a sixteen-year-old griffon? It's very much unbalanced for a griffon to take (since you start with higher damage and can gain bleed effects). And there's nothing preventing a filly master of a style. Heck, a filly might master the style over the course of a game. Having the need for high-level NPCs kicking around is still a danger zone I agree with Dance on.

Also, my issue with the number of perks isn't "just the number of perks." It's the staggering power level of your original set. Even the revised version is straight-up too powerful in comparison to other perks. Each of these chain perks is REALLY good, especially in comparison to other perks at their levels. Too good. Reducing them to the level we outlined keeps them attractive, interesting, and powerful. But not overwhelming.

Lastly, I am distraught to hear that you are basing this entire idea on Mad Modd's system. I thought we were designing something to go with the base rules? I can't balance this in my mind at all when using Modd's unwieldy skills and weapons sub-rule things.

Actually when I designed it it was with the base rule system in mind, I just forgot to pull up base system sheets. The revamp I was looking at the base pnp perks list. So don't fear on that account!

The master could be. It could be the 16 year old griffon, no reason they couldn't be. If you as a GM cant come up with a reason why the master cant go do it then you might want to think harder. Maybe the instructor is a chicken. Maybe he has duties or responsibilities that keep him from going and doing what needs to be done. Perhaps they have an injury that keeps them form it. You should be able to think of some reason!

As for a griffin, I personally feel they shouldn't have been made a PC race. Having said that, this makes them no more OP then any other pony who takes the same fighting skills and perks. Yes they would do more damage but your gona have that no mater what unarmed combat perks they follow.

As for the abilities I added one. And I expanded from 5 perks to 6. How is that making this so much more then what you suggested? Granted its a + to crit damage but its not a big one and you cant get it until level 22.

[Ghostpony]

Smacks himself. sorry posted the revisions to the wrong sheet. You should now all be able to see them.

[Aqu]

Move along.

[Lost_Art]

So... I've taken to noting down when I can't find a ruling in the rules as written... I guess its time I posted them...

Character Improvement - SPECIAL BONUSES: This section explicitly states that Ministry Mare statuettes cannot raise a SPECIAL above 10 and that Cybernetic Implants can. However for clarity there should also be mention here stating whether Perks can or cannot raise a SPECIAL above 10 outright (as Extra Special) or effectively (as numerous eg. Explorer).

There is a ruling in the Gameplay - Enhancement and Reduction section however explicitly stating in the Character Improvement section for completeness would be good, and as mentioned, some clarification on any differences between directly raising a SPECIAL vs a SPECIAL being considered raised for the purposes of X, is needed.

On a related note is whether or not worn clothing or equipment can modify a SPECIAL above 10, given there is precedent for it being stated explicitly.

Combat - Critical Success or Failure in Combat: This section makes mention that most weapons deal 150% damage on a critical success, with Magical Energy weapons dealing 200% damage instead. Mention needs to be made here regarding spells from the school of Offensive magic and whether rolling a critical science roll would bestow 150% or 200% damage.

Finally regarding the Spread Thin trait for unicorns which as written grants a starting unicorn access to all schools of magic except necromancy. Ambiguity arises in the Spellcasting text which describes the spell set accessible at start of play as the unicorn's primary spell set. Does that mean a Spread Thin unicorn regards all non-necromancy spell sets as their primary spell set and can start play with spells from a number of different schools? Or do they have to pick all their starting spells from one spell set (potentially running out of choices) and spend an Additional Spell Count perk to gain spells from the rest of the schools that are unlocked to them?

That's my list of ambiguities so far, normally I would just ask but Dimestream tells me I should post here so that in addition to answers for me, corrections and clarifications can be made to the rules..