Alternate Core Documents

[Kkat]

Kkat, what did you think of the idea about setting Full-Auto Weapons to having a penalty of 10+(5 times ROF)? It does lower their damage, and give some reflection of the inaccurate nature of automatic weapons.

I think that formula is incredibly excessive, but that you are on a better line of thought. I don't think the damage of these weapons need to be lowered, considering how low the damage ratings of these weapons are in the first place. Rather, only accuracy needs to be lowered. Maybe a penalty of 5 x (ROF -1)? This helps resolve the problem of the perception of a problem without nerfing the lower-ROF weapons and making the high ROF weapons appropriately unwieldy. Weapons like the Zebra Special pistol and the Infiltrator retain their Full-Auto penalty of -10, while weapons like the Minigun have a quite substantial -25, making it something that even a pony with 100 in their combat skill is going to miss with a fair portion of the time (baring other modifiers).

You could remove the x2 multiplier on flight speeds for Pegasi in combat, though that would make doing the Sonic Rainboom in combat impossible.

I have no idea what you are suggesting removing here.

[Viewing_Glass]

You could remove the x2 multiplier on flight speeds for Pegasi in combat, though that would make doing the Sonic Rainboom in combat impossible.

I have no idea what you are suggesting removing here.

For how fast pegasus move in combat. Combat flight can be calculated as Flight Rank times Movement, while Overland Flight would be calculated as Flight Rank times 2 times Movement. Does that make sense?

[Kkat]

For how fast pegasus move in combat. Combat flight can be calculated as Flight Rank times Movement, while Overland Flight would be calculated as Flight Rank times 2 times Movement. Does that make sense?

I think so. But I want to make sure I understand. I'm having trouble reading "remove the x2 multiplier on flight speeds for Pegasi in combat", which can be interpreted multiple ways.

Flying: If you are capable of flight, then you may perform aerial movement, charging and sprinting actions. The AP cost for these maneuvers is identical to those for other characters, but your movement distance is multiplied by double your flight rank.

Are you proposing that we change it to this?

Flying: If you are capable of flight, then you may perform aerial movement, charging and sprinting actions. In combat, the AP cost for these maneuvers is identical to those for other characters, but your movement distance is multiplied by your flight rank. (Out of combat, flying characters can reach their full potential speed, and so movement distance is multiplied by double your flight rank. However, it may take a little time to reach full speed.)

If so, I can see that as a reasonable change.

[Viewing_Glass]

Precisely! However, we should probably give a rough time to how long it takes to reach full speed for a pegasus. Judging by the show, I'd say that a couple of minutes sounds fair?

[Kkat]

Making the change. As for getting up to full speed outside of combat...

[Josh Whedon voice] Pegasi fly at the acceleration of plot. [/Josh Whedon voice]

j/k. But seriously, I'm not really sure we need to be more precise than "a short time" for that. If the circumstances aren't severe enough to be using combat-time, then it shouldn't make any difference if getting up to full speed takes two minutes or three. Or half a minute. And adding rules where they aren't needed is the game-design equivalent of adding an explanation for how The Force works (midichlorians!) or detailing the "science" (technobabble!) behind transporters on the Starship Enterprise.

Mechanics-o-babble is best avoided when possible.

[TyrannisUmbra]

I don't think the damage of these weapons need to be lowered, considering how low the damage ratings of these weapons are in the first place. Rather, only accuracy needs to be lowered. Maybe a penalty of 5 x (ROF -1)? This helps resolve the problem of the perception of a problem without nerfing the lower-ROF weapons and making the high ROF weapons appropriately unwieldy. Weapons like the Zebra Special pistol and the Infiltrator retain their Full-Auto penalty of -10, while weapons like the Minigun have a quite substantial -25, making it something that even a pony with 100 in their combat skill is going to miss with a fair portion of the time (baring other modifiers).

We've done a lot of RoF weapon calculations in this thread, and they've all amounted to killing matching level characters within 1-2 rounds with a single copy of the weapon -- and what's disturbing is that some of the examples were still able to kill highly armored targets with barely any extra effort. The problem is more than just a 'perception' of a problem.

How about adding an additional AP cost for burst/full auto, in addition to the accuracy? So you're not paying the same to fire one shot as to fire 10. Combat rounds are only 6 seconds long, after all, so +5 burst/+10 auto AP may be appropriate.

[uSea]

Kkat, what did you think of the idea about setting Full-Auto Weapons to having a penalty of 10+(5 times ROF)? It does lower their damage, and give some reflection of the inaccurate nature of automatic weapons.

I think that formula is incredibly excessive, but that you are on a better line of thought. I don't think the damage of these weapons need to be lowered, considering how low the damage ratings of these weapons are in the first place. Rather, only accuracy needs to be lowered. Maybe a penalty of 5 x (ROF -1)? This helps resolve the problem of the perception of a problem without nerfing the lower-ROF weapons and making the high ROF weapons appropriately unwieldy. Weapons like the Zebra Special pistol and the Infiltrator retain their Full-Auto penalty of -10, while weapons like the Minigun have a quite substantial -25, making it something that even a pony with 100 in their combat skill is going to miss with a fair portion of the time (baring other modifiers).

Actually I like these ideas too. Perhaps they could meet in the middle.

What about the penalty for Full Auto being [5 x (ROF)]?

While this would give ROF 3 weapons (using Full Auto) a -15 to hit compared to the -10 they have now, it would also make that formula even simpler and even ROF 3 weapons are seen as a bit too good at the moment (especially when stacking on sources of +damage).

edit:

How about adding an additional AP cost for burst/full auto, in addition to the accuracy? So you're not paying the same to fire one shot as to fire 10. Combat rounds are only 6 seconds long, after all, so +5 burst/+10 auto AP may be appropriate.

Yes! Please let there be different AP costs for firing once and for firing 6 times! This is why the AP cost is so weird for Auto weapons, because currently using a Single Shot or going Full Auto costs the same AP.

[Palm]

Making the change. As for getting up to full speed outside of combat...

[Josh Whedon voice] Pegasi fly at the acceleration of plot. [/Josh Whedon voice]

j/k. But seriously, I'm not really sure we need to be more precise than "a short time" for that. If the circumstances aren't severe enough to be using combat-time, then it shouldn't make any difference if getting up to full speed takes two minutes or three. Or half a minute. And adding rules where they aren't needed is the game-design equivalent of adding an explanation for how The Force works (midichlorians!) or detailing the "science" (technobabble!) behind transporters on the Starship Enterprise.

Mechanics-o-babble is best avoided when possible.

How about...
It takes approximately 6 seconds (one combat round) to accelerate to full speed for each rank of the flight perk.

[Kkat]

What about the penalty for Full Auto being [5 x (ROF)]?

While this would give ROF 3 weapons (using Full Auto) a -15 to hit compared to the -10 they have now, it would also make that formula even simpler and even ROF 3 weapons are seen as a bit too good at the moment (especially when stacking on sources of +damage).

That could work. I'm going to make that change. And in the spirit of the previous idea of having a way to offset penalties, I'm introducing a 14th level perk to help reduce the penalties:

Death Dealer- When firing full-auto, you take penalties as if your Rate of Fire is two less (minimum 1).

How about adding an additional AP cost for burst/full auto, in addition to the accuracy? So you're not paying the same to fire one shot as to fire 10. Combat rounds are only 6 seconds long, after all, so +5 burst/+10 auto AP may be appropriate.

This is a really, really bad idea. Again, it amounts to nothing more than a ninja-nerf of automatic weapons. Remember, there are no weapons in the game that are listed to be able to fire both single-shot and full auto. What you are suggesting is to claim that the AP listed for (as an example) the minigun is really the AP for the minigun to fire a single shot which it cannot do, and the real AP for actually using the weapon is something other than what is listed. And a straight increase in the AP cost of the weapons is another bad mechanical decision that would not address the perception of the problem. The answer is a resounding "no".

How about...
It takes approximately 6 seconds (one combat round) to accelerate to full speed for each rank of the flight perk.

That's actually a good rule-of-thumb. I'm still not convinced that we need rules for this at all, but if it turns out that there is a need for such a mechanic, I'm inclined to use your idea.

[Kkat]

Rules Modifications:

Full Auto: Using an automatic weapon you roll a number of times equal to the weapon’s RoF and expend twice that many bullets. Each shot is at a -(5 x ROF) penalty to accuracy, and if you are under Strength for the weapon, there is an additional -10% accuracy to hit for every roll. For every success, if the result is odd, one bullet hits, whereas if the result is even, two bullets hit. This is the basic action attack for weapons with a Rate of Fire.

This implements the change discussed above, and cleans up the description. In addition, the results for odd and even have been swapped -- a cosmetic change, but one that I believe is easier to remember.

New Perk:
Death Dealer (level 14, STR 6, Skill 50): When firing full-auto, you take penalties as if your Rate of Fire is two less (minimum 1).