Alternate Core Documents

[Mathwyn]

Demolitions Expert: (Level 6, Mechanical) How is cooking off a grenade going to differ from just throwing it outside of how it's roleplayed? Typically, whenever a friend of mine uses a grenade, the GM just takes into account the AoE and says it hits so long as they get the roll. If they don't, it doesn't hit anyone, or on a crit fail, might hurt the player in question. My idea on how to fix it is to make it a preventative perk, either increasing the difficulty for an enemy to spot and disarm your explosive, making it less likely that you hit an ally in range of the blast, or granting the explosive in question a DT penetration, so long as it's a thrown or placed explosive on all matters. Explosive projectiles have range

Hrm...that's not a bad idea, and something we discussed last night in the Stalliongrad game. Currently the grenade goes off at the end of your round; this also allows an opponent or player to have a 'ready' action to chuck a grenade back should it land near them. This perk would cause the grenade to explode upon hitting a target. In addition, you would need this perk to perform full damage against a limb using a thrown grenade; you can't do it without this perk.

Grenades go off at the end of the round? Did I miss something? Because that's the first I've heard about that, though it sounds like an interesting idea.. The whole "cook off" thing did confuse me when looking at that perk before.

As for pegasi flight and hiding. I let my pegasus player do it as it is his thing. But thematically it does sit a little wrong with me. Not entirely sure why.
My thinking, as a GM, tends to go: "Why didn't X in the Fo:E fic do this?" Then I assume there was I reason and try and figure it out.

Though overall I think I do have a bit of grudge against pegasi/flying characters, thus biasing me. (Making me build environments in 3 dimensions, grrr.)

Now I will follow with a rant about flight speed. Feel free to ignore this, I just need to get it off my chest since I've heard no-one else mention it.

I was also surprised by how stupidly fast characters, flyers especially are in this game. I did some math a while ago and a pegasi with 10 END and 10 AGI and flight rank 4 and speed burst can move: (30*8(240) yards per 7 AP sprint action) 85AP/7 gives 12~ sprint actions a turn which is 2880 yards every 6 seconds. 2880/6 gives you 480 yards a second. In meters that gives 438 m/s. Which is 1576 km/h. That is insanely fast. About 100m/s over the speed of sound (which we know RD can break, with gravity's help, at great risk) for almost no risk, mechanically speaking.

Please feel free to correct my math, I probably got it wrong.

Pegasi (and even ground ponies) are ridiculously fast.

End Rant.

[Thanqol]

Grenades go off at the end of the round? Did I miss something? Because that's the first I've heard about that, though it sounds like an interesting idea.. The whole "cook off" thing did confuse me when looking at that perk before.

Yeah, first I heard of that as well. I think it's a rule with a lot of problems behind it too. I assume 'end of the round' means 'end of the grenade-thrower's round' because otherwise grenades are useless, OR any grenade thrower has to delay their initiative until they go last in the initiative que in order to be able to throw a grenade and hit something with it. In which case, it means that the only change is that you don't know how much damage your grenade is gonna do until the end of your turn which involves ass-backwards average damage calculations and another layer of confusing zoning and timing stuff for no good reason.

It's another one of those weird examples of an entire important rules sections existing only in the vague text of a perk that lets you ignore it. This bugs me, by the way, those perks (thieving, cooking off grenades, hiding in clouds) which contain weird implications that these are things you can't do by default even though they feel like things one really should be able to do by default.

EDIT:

And if the argument against thief is 'ponies are going nuts with overpowered landmine pickpocketing' which I seem to have heard somewhere, how is this measurably different to just dropping the landmine in front of them and then backing up? In the Fallout video game the AI doesn't know how to respond to someone randomly exploding but in a tabletop I'm more than capable of creating random explosions without having to limit myself when it comes to trapping peoples' pockets.

My thinking, as a GM, tends to go: "Why didn't X in the Fo:E fic do this?" Then I assume there was I reason and try and figure it out.

Because Calamity was a craftpony and not a stealthpony?

Though overall I think I do have a bit of grudge against pegasi/flying characters, thus biasing me. (Making me build environments in 3 dimensions, grrr.)

This is a fair sentiment, however, but I guess it's the price one pays for jetpacks. Off-board artillery bombardment seems like the most elegant solution short of some giant glass grid construct..

I was also surprised by how stupidly fast characters, flyers especially are in this game. I did some math a while ago and a pegasi with 10 END and 10 AGI and flight rank 4 and speed burst can move: (30*8(240) yards per 7 AP sprint action) 85AP/7 gives 12~ sprint actions a turn which is 2880 yards every 6 seconds. 2880/6 gives you 480 yards a second. In meters that gives 438 m/s. Which is 1576 km/h. That is insanely fast. About 100m/s over the speed of sound (which we know RD can break, with gravity's help, at great risk) for almost no risk, mechanically speaking.

Please feel free to correct my math, I probably got it wrong.

Pegasi (and even ground ponies) are ridiculously fast.

End Rant.

I'm pretty sure it's even faster if you charge!

They may get +170 to hit you but you'll be in your fifth Extreme Range bracket by then.

[Viewing_Glass]

Thanqol: Sure, nothing is stopping you from stealthing in plain sight. Indeed, there is nothing in the system that prevents anyone from doing this: Even a Size 2 Dragon can stealth in plain sight (as silly as that is). I will just fight giving Pegasi a perk that is so far out of racial theme for them, especially considering they have hundreds of years of training and tradition that says Shock and Awe are the way to go.

If you aren't fond of that, sorry? As far as being a part of the Shadowbolts go, I don't recall them ever mentioned in FoE outside of when Rainbow Dash was a part of the Enclave. In fact, the reason the Enclave dropped the Shadowbolts was because Rainbow Dash was labeled a traitor...and she was leader of the Shadowbolts, not the Wonderbolts.

[Dance_Explosion]

well i think the perk is un needed if only due to the fact i don't see why it would need some sort of super special training to learn how to hide in clouds . The Stealth in plain sight however, can be done, however if you are attempting to sneak up on someone with no cover of any kind the DM should give you a penalty, and/or the guy your sneaking up on a bonus to PER. A sneaking pony DOES need something to use to sneak, darkness, smoke bombs, cover, breaking line of sight or what ever to hide without large penalties.

The benefit to sticking a mine/grenade/bomb in some ones saddle bags with thife is that it counts as a successful sneak attack giving a auto crit [which needs one of the most risky opposed checks in the game!] but with the nerf to critical hits its a lot less of a big deal along with the need for very high sneak to get away with it.

EP have loads of great perks, even perks they have no bloody reason to have! at this point most of the perks EP get seem to be "oh this is a good perk, but its a little to good for the level i want it at! ill just make it EP only!" EP are goddamn fine right now, they make the best Battle saddle, mechanic, explosive, and in combat medics in the game. even though many of the cyberpony perks DO need some work, they have twice the perks of any two other races.

The cyber pony perks do suffer from then being very "if the DM lets you" much like alchemy and shamanism, i would say that withe the right levels of science and mechanics a EP with some parts should be able to do themselves all cyber-ed up, but no one else since they practiced and learned to do it just for themselves and wouldn't know how to do it for anyone else since its made with earth pony magic of what ever, that would help balance them out a bit.

And on the subjects of cybernetics, there really should be some other options then just stat boosts since the zebra alchemy is really damn good, and unless your a cyber pony its either just a +1 to one or two stats and then you SOL unless your a cyber pony. Right now in stalliongrad most of the party has either taken some alchemy or been cybered, but only the EP cyber pony is getting much out of being cybered since these things called "cyber fethishes" can only go in cyber ponies and the unicorn gets just a few stat bonuses instead. one of these cyber fetishes is giving the cyber pony power armor training in about 3 days of practice, and another one is giving the same healing over time as the phoenix elixir. Zebra elixirs give bonuses mostly to things effected by a SPECIAL, move speed, AP, etc, or some low bonuses to several thins, like the world weathering potion, or are just really good compared to cyber pony at all like the Nemean potion that gives us DR, not DT 10% DR. I just think either all the cyber pony stuff should be JUST for EP's since they are the only one's that gain anything out of it really, and this will stop it from pretty much trapping anyone who goes into it otherwise, OR better yet there is a few implants like out of Old World Blues, that can take up the implant "slots" [1/2 of your END rounded down] and give things like a large bonus to a single thing, like poison resistance, radiation resistance, a sizable bonus to DT [around 5-6ish] or maybe add built in night vision or weapons [since that's awesome] things like that so cyberizing your pony with implants grants you bonuses to specific single things, and Zebra Elixers give you a bunch of small bonuses to a couple things that all fit into one type of flavor.

Strong back: shouldn't be EP only and Strong buck: sorry i thought zebra's were the unarmed/melee specialist and not literaly the last choice you would make mechanically to do it [lack of flight for closing, imbuing spells for buffs, teleportation for closing, any perks just to boost it, or large frame for free]


And seriously i do need some comments for the combined Shamanism doc, even if the comment is just "look fine for play testing" since if no one comments at all im going to assume everyone loves it and has no problems with balance or anything about it at all.

[Thanqol]

Thanqol: Sure, nothing is stopping you from stealthing in plain sight.

Yeah, exactly. Except for the implication that I can't do that in this one perk. By stating that you need a perk to hide in clouds, following from that is the implication that you need cover to hide at all - something else not mentioned in core rules. This is the problem I'm talking about; a vague throwaway line in one obscure perk that good deal of players operating pegasus characters will never read because it's about griffins, and yet it references an entire set of assumptions and mechanical systems visible nowhere else.

Indeed, there is nothing in the system that prevents anyone from doing this: Even a Size 2 Dragon can stealth in plain sight (as silly as that is). I will just fight giving Pegasi a perk that is so far out of racial theme for them, especially considering they have hundreds of years of training and tradition that says Shock and Awe are the way to go.

If you aren't fond of that, sorry? As far as being a part of the Shadowbolts go, I don't recall them ever mentioned in FoE outside of when Rainbow Dash was a part of the Enclave. In fact, the reason the Enclave dropped the Shadowbolts was because Rainbow Dash was labeled a traitor...and she was leader of the Shadowbolts, not the Wonderbolts.

That's not how armies work! Scouting may be a very low prestige job in the Enclave, but the Enclave does and has to scout. Observer planes were a thing in WW2 despite all the dogfighting and bombing going on. And more to the point, a wasteland pony who has never been to the Enclave and doesn't buy into Enclave military tactics (which would be a good deal of them) has no obligation to follow Enclave military techniques - except for the weird implication that Pegasus Ponies are biologically incapable of hiding in the clouds because the perk necessary to do so is griffon only.

[Viewing_Glass]

Sorry, but with the way that would upset the perk balance between Griffin and Pegasi, my opinion is still no.

As for the scouting comment, you have that reversed. The Enclave wouldn't want scouts going out below the clouds, indeed, the Enclave would have tried to keep as many of their troops above the clouds at all times to prevent more Dashites from occurring. They used the DJ's broadcast as what scouting they needed, which is why when the Enclave came down from the clouds en masse, they knew the location of every slaver, raider, and town.

[Thanqol]

Sorry, but with the way that would upset the perk balance between Griffin and Pegasi, my opinion is still no.

Then you have to write 'pegasus ponies are biologically incapable of stealth' into the core rules rather than leaving it as a bizarro inference to be extrapolated from a perk in an unrelated race's tree.

As for the scouting comment, you have that reversed. The Enclave wouldn't want scouts going out below the clouds, indeed, the Enclave would have tried to keep as many of their troops above the clouds at all times to prevent more Dashites from occurring. They used the DJ's broadcast as what scouting they needed, which is why when the Enclave came down from the clouds en masse, they knew the location of every slaver, raider, and town.

What about an Enclave pony who is a thief? Or involved in organised crime within the Enclave's society? What about an Enclave smuggler, who slips down to the surface to gather prohibited goods? What about an Enclave spy? The Enclave spies on it's own ponies for signs of dissent, right? Are these ponies, too, biologically incapable of hiding in the clouds?

[Viewing_Glass]

Then you have to write 'pegasus ponies are biologically incapable of stealth' into the core rules rather than leaving it as a bizarro inference to be extrapolated from a perk in an unrelated race's tree.

Doesn't seem that bizarre to me.

What about an Enclave pony who is a thief? Or involved in organised crime within the Enclave's society? What about an Enclave smuggler, who slips down to the surface to gather prohibited goods? What about an Enclave spy? The Enclave spies on it's own ponies for signs of dissent, right? Are these ponies, too, biologically incapable of hiding in the clouds?

In order of questions:

Thief: Shot by the Enclave Military on attempt to re-enter the cloud layer.
Organized Crime: Shot by the Enclave Military on attempt to re-enter the cloud layer.
Smuggler: Shot by the Enclave Military on attempt to re-enter the cloud layer.
Spies: They hide using the cloud structures...and the stealth skill.

[Thanqol]

Doesn't seem that bizarre to me.

Then you are objectively incorrect because I introduced a player to the system not two days ago and he went and built a stealth-themed pegasus without the idea of pegasus ponies being biologically incapable of stealth even occurring to him. Same thing happened when I was introduced to the system.

In order of questions:

Thief: Shot by the Enclave Military on attempt to re-enter the cloud layer.
Organized Crime: Shot by the Enclave Military on attempt to re-enter the cloud layer.
Smuggler: Shot by the Enclave Military on attempt to re-enter the cloud layer.
Spies: They hide using the cloud structures...and the stealth skill.

1-2-3 if you are suggesting that a militarised society is immune to organised crime then you are actually insane. 4-wtf are you saying that pegasus ponies can hide behind clouds but not inside them?

I'm going to stop responding to you now because your position is so fundamentally flawed that I cannot bring myself to engage with it any longer. I'll boil down my position into as basic a concept as possible:

"Stealth themed pegasus ponies are fun. People should be able to play them."

[Viewing_Glass]

My position is simple as well:

Stealth characters of all types are fun to play. Griffons are just better at it than others, like how Zebra are better at Alchemy than others. I'm ok with a system that promotes a race's natural talent for a given skill.