Opening up Unicorn progression paths...

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Lost_Art
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Opening up Unicorn progression paths...

Post by Lost_Art » Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:07 am

This isn't a nerf/buff discussion, more an option discussion. :pipshrug:

As a Unicorn right off the bat we have two paths to down, being a One Trick Pony and becoming massively powerful with a single spell, or not being one and being an average caster of a normal number of spells. Later down the line one has the options to build towards having more potency or versatility, but all in all the progression is basically to become a more powerful caster. So good so far...

But there exists almost a mirrored void of options, almost every build path has an unrealized alter-ego.

What about Unicorns who instead of casting more powerfully, want to cast more readily. That is to say Unicorns who would favor sacrificing effective potency or versatility in favor of being able to cast more often. Unicorns for whom the basic level of the spell is good enough and casting at a lower effective potency is worth the saving in strain, in the most extreme a One Trick Pony who knows one basic level spell only, and instead of casting it more and more powerfully they cast it at lower and lower cost.

Options for strain builds are practically non-existent at present and for good reason, simple perks for reducing strain cost would overpower all existing Unicorns. But I have an idea on how it could be done safely...

In my sights: The Mighty Spell perks. :drwhooves:

One Trick Pony, what is it that we get from taking it and sacrificing all ones spells bar one? Access to Mighty Spell (rank 2) and above of course. The mechanism there being to limit the most potent of the perks to the most specialized Unicorns.

What I am proposing is simple in itself, merely a bizarro version of those 4 Mighty Spell perks, lets call them "Provident Spell" perks, provident of course meaning to provide for future needs, to be economic or frugal. Lets take a look at ranks 1 and 2 to get a feel for how it might work. :rainbowhuh:

Mighty Spell (rank 1): This perk is available to any Unicorn and only applies to one single spell so our first rank of Provident Spell will have to act likewise. What this perk does is allow one to spend half-again as much strain to cast at an effective double potency. The economy of the deal isn't startling nor should it be given any Unicorn could take it, akin to a "Buy one, get another half-price" sale. Our bizarro perk would do the opposite, allowing us to reduce the strain cost of a single spell fractionally, at the cost of reducing ones effective potency and/or versatility fractionally.

Mighty Spell (rank 2): Rank 2 of the chain is limited to One Trick Ponies so the Provident Spell chain would act also. Here the economy of the deal is "Buy two, get two free!" which given its the first exclusive deal is much more appetizing. And so on and so on, up to rank 4 the gains of the deal get bigger and bigger.

But herein lays the issue, it is easy to double or quadruple a number, but to take a fraction away from that number is more of a challenge. With natural Potency and Versatility we are looking at a variable that has a maximum of 5, and the strain costs for basic spells come in flavors 1 - 20 (1,2,4,8,10,15, 20).
  • We could say you are casting with an effective -1,-2,-3,-4 in INT/END for Potency and Versatility purposes and your strain cost is -20%, -40%, -60%, -80% rounded up, but I consider it a little embarrassing to have to tell players to work out percentages and then round.
  • Of course given the known strain costs we could just work out what the changing values and list them 10 = 8, 20 = 16, etc.
  • Or one final option, to treat those 7 strain costs as strain "brackets" and instructing them the strain cost is now one bracket lower, the only problem there being that the values at present do not progress smoothly, +1, +2, +4, +2, +5, +5, respectively, but that could be something that can be fixed.
But that is my idea, and I come here looking for feedback and discussion, even nutting out appropriate numbers and balance issues.
What say you, fellow ponies? :unsuresweetie:

(tldr) Bizarro Mighty Spell perk chain allowing for the building of Unicorns that although weaker casters can cast much more often and not be so quickly depleted and reduced to conventional means.

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Thanqol
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Re: Opening up Unicorn progression paths...

Post by Thanqol » Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:29 am

Options! I hate options!

More seriously, strain costs is a strange target to pick because it's so situational. Some GMs run very tense, focused drawn out scenes but in a Walk The Wastes style situation where you have an encounter or two and then a day of rest then a unicorn gets to fight at maximum potential for almost every encounter without needing to shepherd his strain quantity. The limitation is how fast he can cast his spells, which is a function of AP and Spell Alacrity.

However, in a game with more tense, drawn out long-form scenes which focus on survival and resource conservation this could be a lot more viable an option. However, in this kind of game, where everypony is low on Strain, ammo, and sleep then the melee and unarmed specialists are king.

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Re: Opening up Unicorn progression paths...

Post by TyrannisUmbra » Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:49 am

Well, I'd like to also point out that there's also currently going the Spread Thin route. That trait changes how casting works enough to be worthy of being called its own path, I'd say.

Other than that... I'm too tired to make my own suggestions right now, but I like things that are fun and different and option-y! I'd like to see a lot more new ideas like this. Maybe I'll come back to this thread when I'm more... awake.
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Re: Opening up Unicorn progression paths...

Post by Lost_Art » Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:59 am

Oh yes! I forgot to mention AP but you bring up an interesting point to do with play-style.

There can be no doubt that both play-styles you refer to are being played and indeed do have particular focuses, the Survivor style would be more interested in lowering strain costs, while the Walk in the Wastes style would be more interested in reducing AP costs.

It would be silly to create perks to pander one style over the other so perhaps these two values can be compromised:

At Mighty Spell (rank 4) the deal is "Buy 4, get 12 free" or basically get 4 times as much as you would otherwise.

We could assume our Provident Spell (rank 4) would cost you -4 INT/END and rather than provide the factor of 4 in strain savings and paying only 1/4 the normal strain cost, instead paying 1/2 the normal strain cost and perhaps half the normal AP cost?

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Re: Opening up Unicorn progression paths...

Post by Viewing_Glass » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:32 pm

Hrm...I'd like to run the numbers on this to see how useful the lowered potency/versatility could be with one spell. Unless I read this wrong and its supposed to apply for multiple spells? Cause you can already Zen Cast to lower a spell's strain cost by 1/2 or 10, which ever is less. And you gain a +10 to any check that is required by the spell (Like Zen Casting an Arcane Blast would give you a +10 to hit and lower its cost).

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Re: Opening up Unicorn progression paths...

Post by Lost_Art » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:19 pm

In the case of Zen Casting one is sacrificing AP to reduce strain cost and gaining a skill bonus, which isn't quite the direction I was thinking of.

The aim would actually be to enable casting more often, both in the sense of per round as well as per adventure, at the cost of effectiveness. So Zen Casting solves the equation quite differently, sacrificing AP for strain saving and skill bonus.

Its something to keep an eye out for though... how would Zen Casting interact with something like the proposed Provident Spell...

:lwalk:

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Re: Opening up Unicorn progression paths...

Post by Pantzar » Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:32 am

Bump.

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Lost_Art
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Re: Opening up Unicorn progression paths...

Post by Lost_Art » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:37 pm

Another thing that gets me about Unicorns is the strain recovery system. As a Unicorn levels up they don't gain the ability to cast more per se, instead they get the ability to exhaust themselves quicker without any improvement in their recovery. A high level Unicorn could have upwards of 500 strain, there are obvious problems with recovering strain at the same rate as a level 1 Unicorn... 25 hours of sleep, 50 hours of light activity.

This is fine if you are the kind of Unicorn that uses their magic sparingly and lives a life where extended rests are frequent. But for Unicorns who need to use their magic continuously it boils down to this:

A Unicorn's strain limit is a ~reserve~, it's there to get you by until the next stop, and if life doesn't permit you to stop then when it runs out, your strain expenditure cannot exceed your strain recovery per day, which is the same for every Unicorn of any level in the given situation. That seems odd to me, that high level Unicorns can only expend the same amount of strain per day as low level ones in extended stints.

Surely strain recovery should improve with level? Or allow for perk spending to recover quicker?

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Re: Opening up Unicorn progression paths...

Post by Viewing_Glass » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:57 pm

Lost_Art wrote:Much Wisdom was said in the post before this.
:lwalk:

I've been saying this for a while. In addition, Resiliant Horn is currently misleading. While it appears to make you less resilient to Burn Out, when you do burn out, by the current rules, it actually causes you to take longer to recover from it.

I do have a different version of Resilient Horn I am testing. I don't have access to it at work, but I can give you a summary.
  • Requires: Level 4
  • Ranks: 3
  • Benefit: Whenever a unicorn regains strain, they gain an additional 3 strain per rank. In addition, whenever they are rolling against burnout, they gain an effective +1 END for the purposes of the roll. Mastery: An additional +1 Strain and + 1 END when rolling against burnout.
With all three ranks, this gives a unicorn 10 more strain generated per hour and +4 END when rolling against burnout. Now that is what I call a resilient horn. :twilightsmile:

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Re: Opening up Unicorn progression paths...

Post by TyrannisUmbra » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:16 pm

Lost_Art wrote:Another thing that gets me about Unicorns is the strain recovery system. As a Unicorn levels up they don't gain the ability to cast more per se, instead they get the ability to exhaust themselves quicker without any improvement in their recovery. A high level Unicorn could have upwards of 500 strain, there are obvious problems with recovering strain at the same rate as a level 1 Unicorn... 25 hours of sleep, 50 hours of light activity.

This is fine if you are the kind of Unicorn that uses their magic sparingly and lives a life where extended rests are frequent. But for Unicorns who need to use their magic continuously it boils down to this:

A Unicorn's strain limit is a ~reserve~, it's there to get you by until the next stop, and if life doesn't permit you to stop then when it runs out, your strain expenditure cannot exceed your strain recovery per day, which is the same for every Unicorn of any level in the given situation. That seems odd to me, that high level Unicorns can only expend the same amount of strain per day as low level ones in extended stints.

Surely strain recovery should improve with level? Or allow for perk spending to recover quicker?
The thing about this is, strain is already a nonfactor, usually. Out of all my groups I've almost never seen a unicorn actually in burnout territory, except for my original unicorn at higher levels. She never actually reached burnout, but she did get within one spellcast of the risk, and even then it was only after casting multiple spells with a strain cost of 30+, along with a Mighty Spell'd 25 strain spell (So 37), in a situation of vastly prolonged activity.

Early on Strain can be a little bit restrictive, but even a halfway decent night's sleep will replenish 100 strain, which is pretty much a complete reset for your first 10 levels, give or take maybe 20 or so strain.

So... I don't think it's solely a problem of recovery.

Plus, if high-level recovery was boosted to be more scaling, then there would be no such thing as burnout, with the way the current mechanics are working.
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