Fixing Magic

[TenMihara]

To be honest, I'm feeling somewhat abashed now. This whole thing reeks of 'Suited for Success', and I can't help but feel like somepony who isn't Rarity. Making demands and pointing out perceived flaws in something based on making them conform to what I think they should be. Then, when all is said and done, it becomes a huge problem that causes disputes and conflicts that can't be resolved.

From this point on, I'm removing myself from the debate. I may return with ideas for new spells, but otherwise you won't be hearing from me on this subject again.

[TyrannisUmbra]

I was going to dissect every point in your post...

And I had the urge to do the same with yours. However, while feedback and suggestions are always welcome, a designer must understand that some individuals will be looking for something significantly different or even entirely alien to the designer's intention. In such a case, it is better for the designer's project (and sanity) to stop trying either argue with or please those individuals and instead focus on the work and the feedback from people who fall within the target audience. So instead, I think it is far better to simply agree to disagree and encourage you to build your own system for magic as you will not ever be pleased with the one we are creating.

Thank you. Have a nice day, and enjoy playing Fallout: Equestria.

You seem to have a very wrong impression about what I want from the system. I do not want to deviate from the canon put forth by both your story and the show. I do not want to subvert your system, which is why I'm posting here rather than just utilizing my own system. I want to find a happy medium where the system is canon-compliant, and allows for fun, engaging gameplay from all kinds of characters. To be frank, taking a stance of "Play my way or go make your own game" just makes it seem like you have no respect for the people who want to play the game and have fun doing so.

I repeat: I want to find a happy medium where you're satisfied with the way the system is structured, and the players are satisfied with the way the system plays.

[SilverlightPony]

You seem to have a very wrong impression about what I want from the system. I do not want to deviate from the canon put forth by both your story and the show. I do not want to subvert your system, which is why I'm posting here rather than just utilizing my own system. I want to find a happy medium where the system is canon-compliant, and allows for fun, engaging gameplay from all kinds of characters. To be frank, taking a stance of "Play my way or go make your own game" just makes it seem like you have no respect for the people who want to play the game and have fun doing so.

I repeat: I want to find a happy medium where you're satisfied with the way the system is structured, and the players are satisfied with the way the system plays.

You seem to be asking for the ability to build, among other things, a spellcaster who can hold her own in combat through spells alone. But such a character has never been seen in either FoE or FiM. Even Twilight Sparkle, the very embodiment of magical badassery, cannot pull this off.

A character who can get by on spells alone does not fit in the setting, and that's why the system doesn't support it.

[TyrannisUmbra]

You seem to be asking for the ability to build, among other things, a spellcaster who can hold her own in combat through spells alone. But such a character has never been seen in either FoE or FiM. Even Twilight Sparkle, the very embodiment of magical badassery, cannot pull this off.

A character who can get by on spells alone does not fit in the setting, and that's why the system doesn't support it.

Twilight has used her magic to amazing effect in almost every episode that features her as a main character. Additionally, there are too few examples of unicorns in FO:E to have an accurate representation of possible spectrum. To put things simply, none of Kkat's characters from the story have dedicated their time to learning magic specifically, instead being satisfied with having average level magic and focusing their efforts elsewhere. We don't have an accurate look at unicorns who practice more, stronger spells. If anything, I'd like to know what some of the Twilight Society unicorns have for spell stats.

I only want the possibility for players to have a legitimate choice in the character they want to build.

If the character spends half their perks on magic, and half on weapon perks, they can reasonably expect to have moderately powerful spells, and moderately powerful weapons. In the same vein, a gunslinger spending all their perks on weapon perks can reasonably expect the same kind of return -- their weapons will be amazing. However, a unicorn who wants to spend the majority of their perks on spells cannot expect an equal return on their investment.in 90% of cases.

What I want is to find a way to allow all possible playstyles a chance to succeed while still keeping true to the spirit of the design.

[LuckyLeaf]

You seem to be asking for the ability to build, among other things, a spellcaster who can hold her own in combat through spells alone. But such a character has never been seen in either FoE or FiM. Even Twilight Sparkle, the very embodiment of magical badassery, cannot pull this off.

Twilight fared rather well in the MLP season 2 finale, considering she was facing an army. The goddess alicorns also had their lightning spell, which was very effective.

[SilverlightPony]

Twilight has used her magic to amazing effect in almost every episode that features her as a main character.

And most of those are non-combat situations, or are good examples of non-combat spells being used in creative ways, which is exactly what should be happening in PNP games. You don't have to be powerful to be useful in combat.

Twilight fared rather well in the MLP season 2 finale, considering she was facing an army. The goddess alicorns also had their lightning spell, which was very effective.

Again, the Gatling Horn was only possible thanks to Pinkie. By herself, four or five of the changelings probably would have been enough to keep her from getting to the Elements of Harmony. In a straight-up fight of attrition, rather than denial, she probably could have taken a dozen or two, but then they're mooks, they're supposed to be less than a match for the heroes. Put Twilight vs., say, Applejack, with her only directly offensive magic being that arcane blast (since it's the only one we've seen in the show), without the Pinkie Horn Gatling, and she'd have to resort to other trickery to win -- just like these rules intend.

And Celestia and Chrysalis are on a whole other tier that cannot be used to make a fair comparison to PCs in a game.

[Kkat]

You seem to be asking for the ability to build, among other things, a spellcaster who can hold her own in combat through spells alone. But such a character has never been seen in either FoE or FiM. Even Twilight Sparkle, the very embodiment of magical badassery, cannot pull this off.

A character who can get by on spells alone does not fit in the setting, and that's why the system doesn't support it.

Thank you! You win a half-dozen Littlepips for helping save my sanity!





So many hugs right now.

[DontAskForCookies]

Another strike against having a magic centered character in the FOE setting is that this is post-apocalyptic, most of the advanced learning of the past have fallen into darkness. This includes Magic, which was and is a for of science in the setting. It would not make sense for a character to be able to master spells that no-pony remember anymore. To makes sense of it you would have to either have some sort of collection of very smart ponies studying for years to even begin to re-build the foundations of the knowledge of the past or some sort of Star-Swirl the Bearded tier magical bad-ass.

Sure you occasionally come across some-pony or a group of ponies who have a hoof full of potent magical secrets, but you know what? They are not sharing! Greed is the foremost driving force in the wasteland! Seriously, who would just give away that sort of knowledge? Only the powerful would have even the smallest pieces of the puzzle to realizing a full return to magical power in Equestria, and its almost a sure thing that they are so powerful because they are hogging that little slice of magic for themselves!

And even if some-pony was just giving away free powerful magic lessons, it just docent make sense that characters would have the raw magical power to master any real large number of them, especially ones outside the range of their special talent. Twilight Sparkle was powerful, one of the most powerful in all of Equestria, the sort who only comes along once in a blue moon, one in a million, A real freaking genius. How likely do you think it is your character is going to be the diamond in the rough who can handle all this obscured arcane knowledge? Such a character should be reserved for npc status as he or she is to powerful for players in a game about survival.

[TenMihara]

SPELL IDEAS!

Illusion Spell - Blur
Effect: Creates a magical afterimage around a pony as they move, making them harder to hit.

Manipulation Spell - Phase
Effect: Transforms a solid barrier or object into a permeable surface that the pony can pass through as if it weren't there
(Note: Pumpkin Cake showed this to be possible in S2E13)

Unfortunately I only have ideas for these without and mechanics to back them up. My brain has been completely fried lately.

P.S: I want half a dozen Littlepips! D=

[LuckyLeaf]

Again, the Gatling Horn was only possible thanks to Pinkie.

But ultimately, doesn't the power come from Twilight? And if not, how would that work? How can a non-unicorn enhance a spell? Are there plans for such mechanics?

And Celestia and Chrysalis are on a whole other tier that cannot be used to make a fair comparison to PCs in a game.

I meant the FoE Unity alicorns, though Littlepip herself is said to have her telekinesis comparable to Celestia at the end of her journey. Anyway, the spells of the Unity alicorns are based on unicorn spells, so I can't see why a unicorn couldn't have at least one of the spells just as good, such as lightning.

Another strike against having a magic centered character in the FOE setting is that this is post-apocalyptic, most of the advanced learning of the past have fallen into darkness. This includes Magic, which was and is a for of science in the setting. It would not make sense for a character to be able to master spells that no-pony remember anymore. To makes sense of it you would have to either have some sort of collection of very smart ponies studying for years to even begin to re-build the foundations of the knowledge of the past or some sort of Star-Swirl the Bearded tier magical bad-ass.

You need to keep in mind that characters like Littlepip are the exception. Stable dwellers are said to be taught magic and commonly learn a few spells early. Not all knowledge is lost and you don't even need Twilight Society to get it. As shown by characters such as Crane, there are specialists here and there that you can actually get to share knowledge, not to speak that a natural talent can make you develop spells without any instruction, like Rarity did with her gem-finding spell. By this reason, the knowledge is being rebuilt as the time passes. A dedicated pony can gather such knowledge. It doesn't mean they will be as capable as Twilight, but Twilight herself knows much more that handful of spells we seen in the cartoon. Considering FoE, she spent the rest of her life working with Arcane Sciences research. Can a PC reach that level? Likely not. Can they still be undeniably competent in magic? If it's anything like what we have as reference, I don't see why not.