Earth Pony Balance Issues

[Dimestream]

Hulloes, Dimestream here. This is my first attempt at a forum post, so...be gentle.

There's been a lot of changes to Unicorn magic in the last system update, mostly toning down what the max capabilities of it are. I, for one, think that beyond tweaking the magic system, we don't need to nerf Unicorns any more. But there's still the fact that when you come down to it, even with the breadth of Earth Pony Only perks available, Earth Ponies still come up short when compared to the other playable races. I think this is because they have literally no magic whatsoever, and thus pale in comparison to those who do.

Zebra have alchemy and long-term shamanism, Buffalo have burst shamanism, Unicorns have *many* spellsets, and even Pegasi have flight better than any other race, special maneuvers, and ill-defined weather-manipulation. Earth Ponies have nothing beyond their own four hooves. Compare any Earth pony with a skillset (say, Medicine, or Stealth) to any other race with magic, and the poor Earth Pony is quickly outshined.

So I posit that, since it is a thing that has been mentioned, Earth Ponies need something to account for their lack of magic, either their own subtle 'earth pony magic' or stubborn sturdiness or something. Without something special keeping Earth Ponies alive, there would be far more unicorns, and fewer Earth Ponies, in the harshness of the Wasteland.

Thoughts or suggestions?

[Viewing_Glass]

You enjoy your emotes, don't you Dimestream. Heh.

Anyway, my suggestion was to make Earth Ponies more durable by giving them a passive boost to DT, resistances, and HP. While this may seem like quite a bit early on, I think it will even out over time. It also isn't very flashy, which, unless your Pinkie Pie, comes much closer to fitting Earth Ponies. With that, my suggestion:

Earth Ponies are more durable than any other race in the Wasteland. Every time an Earth Pony gains a new level, they gain the following bonuses:

A +1 bonus to resist the effects of Radiation, Poison, and Stun Damage and effects.
An addiitonal +2 HP.
Every two levels, an Earth Pony gains an additional point of DT.

This represents the hardiness of Earth Ponies without over powering the system, in my opinion. Comments?

[Shady_steps]

wait an extra point of DT? >.<
nope nope nope way op there you do that and nopony will play anything else, we already get our fair share of earth ponies and unicorns and for some reason everyone wants to be a alicorn but the race i see having problems is the Do Do ponies i mean pegasus XD

[AMARDA]

Why not give Earth Ponies a +5/10 HP per point of Endurance at character creation? That seems like a logical way to show their strengths and prob would not be to over powered in the long run.

[Godna]

The DT every two levels wouldn't be too bad actually as long as it caps, but as it is. Just Straight up Earth ponies are underwhelming next to either of the other two. I see more people playing pegasi then I do unicorns(it's close there) and I've had maybe...two Earth ponies in my parties? period.

[AMARDA]

I've got 3 Earth Ponies in my group alone. I actually have no Unicorns at all. I do however have a changeling and a Alicorn so it kinda works out.

[icekatze]

hi hi

I've had some thoughts on this matter, but before I say anything else, I want to preface my statement by pointing out that this is just me own thoughts on the matter that I'm sharing simply for the sake of providing a different point of view. You may feel free to completely ignore me.

Wanting Earth Ponies to have magic was one of the things that propelled me to make my own game system. In the show, they have a racial magic that makes plants grow, and in FO:E they have an inherent quality that allows them to reach levels of mastery over their special talent that other races would be hard pressed to match. I rolled these two concepts into a notion that Earth Pony magic is about improving and growing things. In the wasteland, this is most commonly the individual Earth Ponies themselves, who's magic boosts their relevant skills and stats. But for exceptional Earth Ponies who dedicate themselves, they can potentially learn a lot of different tricks to boost themselves, and also the ponies, plants or objects around them. ((in the same way that there are exceptional unicorns and pegasi, as well as some that can barely open a jar or achieve 2.5 wingpower)) So a pre-war Earth Pony might help trees to grow by working with them, a post-apocalyptic Earth Pony might help their friends wounds to heal faster by working with them. (Or help her friends overcome their fears by singing a song, in a very bard like way. Or like Poison Joke, by subtly blurring the lines between natural and supernatural.)

Unicorn magic is a triumph of mind over matter, and Pegasi seem to use physical actions to buck lightning and create tornadoes, but Earth Ponies read bed time stories to trees and encourage things to grow with the strength of their heart.

This is just my opinion though, and since I understand that it runs counter to what is generally accepted, I'm not trying to press the issue or anything like that.

[Thrackerzod]

That was the most beautiful thing I have ever read icekatze Any way, this is an interesting topic. I can't contribute to much sense I haven't been able to play, but I LOVE making earth pony characters. I always sorta assumed that earth ponies were always tougher then other races naturally, and that that's something that defines them. I like icekatze idea, about how if they dedicate them selves they reach much higher skills then other races.

[Kkat]

I have been playing around with some ideas for Earth Pony magic in my Stalliongrad campaign. Later, I may offer them up as an optional ruleset. I personally like the idea that Earth Ponies have a very subtle sort of magic, and that is supported by several parts of Fallout: Equestria. There was a solid foundation behind the racist mindset of earth pony superiority in Stable 101.

In fact, the system already suggests something like this with the Random trait. If implimented, my earth pony magic would be unavailable to characters with the Random trait. On a related note, a note has been added to the Random trait: A zebra with this trait cannot take Shaman or Tribal Shaman.

That said, actual gameplay has not shown earth ponies to be unbalanced. Rather, what it has shown is that playing an earth pony is the way to be the best at anything except the special abilities of the other races. Other races are hampered by the need to throw their SPECIALs, skill points and/or perks into keeping their unique abilities functional. (Unicorns are the worst off, outside of Alicorns, as magic requires focus on two SPECIALs and a skill, and still end up eating a third or more of every unicorn's perks even if they aren't trying for a Twilight or Trixie style "I am da magics" character.) Earth ponies remain the best choice for a character who plans to focus on anything other than shamanism, magic or flight.

Any enhancements to the Earth Ponies have to match both FOE and the show, and neither support the idea that Earth Ponies just have more DT or Health than everypony else. Plus, I don't think such changed would solve the perceived problem here, as the problem doesn't seem to be "earth ponies are inferior" so much as "I feel dazzled by the tricks other races can do" -- and there is nothing dazzling about more health or DT.

--Kkat

PS: The "earth ponies can grow thing magically" was a Lauren Faust idea that never really made it into the show. There is no evidence in the cartoon that all earth ponies can magically grow things. And frankly, Word of Faust that isn't backed by the show isn't applicable to FOE. Ask Scootaloo's wings why.

[Fridge]

After playing the three primary races, (EP, Pegasus, and Unicorn), I kind of realize that Kkat's actually kind of correct here. In terms of fulfilling traditional roles in the party (Medic, Tank, and Damage Dealer, at least), Earth Ponies are incredibly dependent on loot and gear, but they can take the regular perk path and their racials improve what they're trying to do instead of dominating everything else. They get a lot of power out of those perks for minimal opportunity cost out of what their role demands from them.

The problem isn't that they need to be more balanced, it's that they need to be cooler. Like, twenty percent cooler.

Let's face it. Flying around at Mach 3, kicking around clouds and doing awesome tricks? Cool. Casting friggin' magic lightning bolts and telekinetically lifting things up to the equivalent of 80 STR? Cool. Brewing up magic amulets that let you fly? Talking to spirits of nature and demanding them to do your bidding? Really cool. But EP's don't get any of those cool things, they just get better numbers. And that's useful, really useful, but not cool, and any completely sane person at play wants to play something cool more than they want to play something with better numbers for your average situation. And that's really the problem, it isn't that they need more utility or that they need to be better at doing things, they just need something that they can be proud they have that nopony else does.

Now, granted, there is a big leg up that other races have that Earth Ponies simply cannot have, and that's mobility. Maybe that's a trade-off for the numerical advantage they get, but the numerical advantage does become moot as you reach the higher levels. To use a scenario, let's put each individual race trying to scale a raider-filled apartment building without any gear. The pegasus just flies on up, easy. The unicorn can just teleport up there and be up there faster than the pegasus. The zebra is kind of screwed without gear, but she can find herbs around on the spot and make her own at relative ease to spiderpony crawl up the side of the building. Heck, the buffalo could probably ask the spirits of the wind for a lift on up. The Alicorn just picks one of the first two that they want to attempt. The Hellhound scales the building with their razor sharp claws. The EP, however, is stuck at the bottom without gear needing a lift from one of the other races, and if the others are feeling particularly snarky, the EP has to go inside the raider filled building at the bottom and fight their way up while the others laugh at them from the rooftop. That doesn't make them feel cool at all, even if parties are built around the mechanic that they need each other's help at all times, because it doesn't feel cool to need to ask for help.

In addition, they don't really scale up to anything cool in the long run to my knowledge other than cyberpony, which isn't for everyone due to the fact that most ponies wouldn't volunteer for that procedure, or Steel Ranger Armor, which depends on how nice your GM is feeling when it comes to finding loot and ponies to train you. And even then, power armor isn't uniquely cool because pegasi get them, too, as well as having a trait that lets them begin the game with the training. EP's completely depend on the GM to give them cool stuff towards endgame, and that makes me sad.

It's not a balance issue, it's a flavor issue. One can either wait for MLP to give us something, which is unlikely, or create their own coolness for their system, which largely depends on individual ideas on what makes Earth Ponies cool.