Alternate Core Documents

[SilverlightPony]

Ack. Looks like I mixed up Rampage's Wrath with Reaper Pony's Gallop. Lemme fix that.

My question is still valid. In the Perk Revisions doc, Reaper Pony's Gallop is no longer S.A.T.S.-related at all, and I am confused.

From the Perk Revisions doc:

If you kill a target, you gain a free attack with the last weapon you used (can be spent later in the turn).

From Fallout: Equestria, at the end of Chapter 19:

Footnote: Level Up.
New Perk: Reaper Pony’s Gallop – If you kill a target while using S.A.T.S., 25% of your AP are restored after dropping the spell. This will usually refresh your targeting spell enough to use it again immediately for at least one more attack.

I figure it'd need to be adjusted somehow for gameplay purposes, but shouldn't it still be S.A.T.S.-related in some form or fashion?

[Kkat]

In light of recent events in my Tuesday game have me looking at sleep deprivation rules. I started with the hardcore rules for sleep in New Vegas, but I'm not entirely impressed with them. After spending some time with my calculator and doing sleep deprivation research, I've come up with this proposal for your consideration:


The EI is 16 hours. No "save" roll. Characters lose one SPECIAL at the end of every EI that they have stayed awake in this order: Agility, Intelligence, Perception, Endurance. (For example: characters who stay awake for more than 96 hours would be suffering -2 to Agility and Intelligence, -1 to Perception and Endurance.) These losses will drop the SPECIAL to a minimum of 1. Once the character loses more than one point of Perception, hallucinations may begin. Death does not actually occur from sleep loss, although the severely compromised Endurance of somepony suffering sleep deprivation can make sickness and other hazards far more deadly.

A solid hour of sleep regains a lost SPECIAL. SPECIALS lost to sleep deprivation are regained in reverse order.


Opinions?

[SilverlightPony]

In light of recent events in my Tuesday game have me looking at sleep deprivation rules. I started with the hardcore rules for sleep in New Vegas, but I'm not entirely impressed with them. After spending some time with my calculator and doing sleep deprivation research, I've come up with this proposal for your consideration:


The EI is 16 hours. No "save" roll. Characters lose one SPECIAL at the end of every EI that they have stayed awake in this order: Agility, Intelligence, Perception, Endurance. (For example: characters who stay awake for more than 96 hours would be suffering -2 to Agility and Intelligence, -1 to Perception and Endurance.) These losses will drop the SPECIAL to a minimum of 1. Once the character loses more than one point of Perception, hallucinations may begin. Death does not actually occur from sleep loss, although the severely compromised Endurance of somepony suffering sleep deprivation can make sickness and other hazards far more deadly.

A solid hour of sleep regains a lost SPECIAL. SPECIALS lost to sleep deprivation are regained in reverse order.


Opinions?

Sounds like it could work fairly well. Would be useful to work up a reference chart, though.

[Viewing_Glass]

Works for me. Most Unicorns are going to avoid it, though. If they dont get enough sleep, a unicorn has more problems than stat loss...like burnout.

[Night Light]

The EI is 16 hours. No "save" roll. Characters lose one SPECIAL at the end of every EI that they have stayed awake in this order: Agility, Intelligence, Perception, Endurance. (For example: characters who stay awake for more than 96 hours would be suffering -2 to Agility and Intelligence, -1 to Perception and Endurance.) These losses will drop the SPECIAL to a minimum of 1. Once the character loses more than one point of Perception, hallucinations may begin. Death does not actually occur from sleep loss, although the severely compromised Endurance of somepony suffering sleep deprivation can make sickness and other hazards far more deadly.

A solid hour of sleep regains a lost SPECIAL. SPECIALS lost to sleep deprivation are regained in reverse order.

I like the idea, though you'll want to revise or remove the perk "All Night Long: You consider your END as 2 points higher in order to resist exhaustion or sleep deprivation; your survival rolls to overcome such a situation get a +4 too" if you implement it.

Also, how does this work with the optional 16 hour day rule that you use? EI changes to 12 hours and a 'normal' night of rest is 4 hours?

Sounds like it could work fairly well. Would be useful to work up a reference chart, though.

Agreed, not exactly a complex concept but being able to just glance at a table to see how the penalties progress might be useful.

Works for me. Most Unicorns are going to avoid it, though. If they dont get enough sleep, a unicorn has more problems than stat loss...like burnout.

Yeah, though it'll be nice to have other ponies besides just Viewing Glass and Night Light sleeping as we travel.

[Viewing_Glass]

Also, how does this work with the optional 16 hour day rule that you use? EI changes to 12 hours and a 'normal' night of rest is 4 hours?

I have consulted...the lesser Wikipedian Oracle to answer your question Night Light! And the answer is...probably.

If we run that Adult Ponies are equivalent to Adult Humans, then the optimal amount of sleep needed ranges to 1/4 to 1/3 the hours in a given day. In a 24 hour day, an adult human requires 6 to 8 hours of sleep. Scaling this down to a 16 hour day, we see a human would require 4 to 5 hours of sleep.

However, this changes if we equate Adult Ponies to Adult Horses, which only require 2.5 hours of sleep in a 24 hour period, generally taken in 15 minute intervals. This comes down to roughly 1/10th of a day spent a sleep. If we scale this to a 16 hour day, this comes out to be an hour and a half to two hours of sleep required.

Brought to you by Doctor Whooves, and Wikipedia. The more you know!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep#Opti ... _in_humans

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_beha ... p_patterns

[LuckyLeaf]

The EI is 16 hours. No "save" roll. Characters lose one SPECIAL at the end of every EI that they have stayed awake in this order: Agility, Intelligence, Perception, Endurance.

Opinions?

Sounds interesting.
May I suggest a CHA loss as well? It could reflect the growing irritability and the effects on looks and manners that come with the deprivation. It might warrant speeding up the rate in which the effects set.

Does the sleep hour to recover the SPECIAL add up to the normal needed sleep? Meaning a character who needs to sleep 4 hours will have to sleep 5 to recover a previous lost SPECIAL. I think there should be more than 1 hour needed, since, considering how slowly the penalties set as it is, choosing to have 4 days or so of continuous activity to sleep it away later is actually not very penalizing.

If an attribute is already reduced to one, are further penalties intended to it applied to the next attribute on the line instead? Just brainstorming here, but what do you think if they were applied in the order of the char's highest to lowest SPECIAL?

Is there any risk and rules for falling asleep unwittingly when too deprived?

Also, how does this work with the optional 16 hour day rule that you use? EI changes to 12 hours and a 'normal' night of rest is 4 hours?

I suppose it would change to 24 hours, as a normal day. Which should have 6-8 hours of rest. It's what I'll use for my game.

----------------

I have considered traits such as Slow Metabolism (needs to eat less, sleep more) and something opposite to that for my survival game. Does anyone have suggestions? Also, is anyone using rules on starvation already? I have my own ideas, but I'd like to take a look.

Edit: expanded, replied to Night Light and added questions

[Night Light]

I have consulted...the lesser Wikipedian Oracle to answer your question Night Light! And the answer is...probably.

Beautiful work as always, Viewing Glass, love it. Also, I finished photoshopping that image of Firefly you wanted, don't let me forget to give it to you at the game tonight.

May I suggest a CHA loss as well? It could reflect the growing irritability and the effects on looks and manners that come with the deprivation. It might warrant speeding up the rate in which the effects set.

Does the sleep hour to recover the SPECIAL add up to the normal needed sleep? Meaning a character who needs to sleep 4 hours will have to sleep 5 to recover a previous lost SPECIAL. I think there should be more than 1 hour needed, since, considering how slowly the penalties set as it is, choosing to have 4 days or so of continuous activity to sleep it away later is actually not very penalizing.

If an attribute is already reduced to one, are further penalties intended to it applied to the next attribute on the line instead? Just brainstorming here, but what do you think if they were applied in the order of the char's highest to lowest SPECIAL?

Is there any risk and rules for falling asleep unwittingly when too deprived?

Charisma loss from sleep is an interesting concept, but I'd argue that "growing irritability" varies a bit too much from person to person (or character to character) to force it upon them.

I believe the intention is that recovering SPECIALs from sleep deprivation would be a part of regular sleep. While I'll agree that it's not terribly penalizing, I think the idea is to make sleep a functional and mechanical aspect of play, but not a dominant one. For a more reality-based approach, to add onto Viewing Glass' work above, equines only have to lay down and sleep every few days, and even then only for an hour or two, supporting the minimal penalties suggested.

I hadn't actually thought about passing out from sleep deprivation, LuckyLeaf, good catch. If a character's SPECIAL would be reduced to zero through sleep deprivation, I imagine they would pass out for a period of time (which would need defining).

I suppose it would change to 24 hours, as a normal day. Which should have 6-8 hours of rest. It's what I'll use for my game.

Depends on if you go with the realistic approach or the more human approach. You could easily keep the 16 hour clock either way, though there's little functional difference as long as you're consistent. Same with either choosing a more human sleep cycle or a more realistic equine sleep cycle as Viewing Glass outlined.

I have considered traits such as Slow Metabolism (needs to eat less, sleep more) and something opposite to that for my survival game. Does anyone have suggestions? Also, is anyone using rules on starvation already? I have my own ideas, but I'd like to take a look.

You may want to read up on metabolism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolism) because sleep and food don't really interact that way. (Notably, someone with a truly slow metabolism wouldn't get all of the available energy from the food they eat and would actually require more food or suffer reduced energy and begin losing weight.)

[LuckyLeaf]

You could easily keep the 16 hour clock either way, though there's little functional difference as long as you're consistent. Same with either choosing a more human sleep cycle or a more realistic equine sleep cycle as Viewing Glass outlined.

However, considering the show, especially the whole motivation of Luna's original revolt against ponykind, I wouldn't think ponies actually do sleep just 2.5 hours total. They do seem to sleep for the night much alike humans.

Also, with only 2.5 hours of sleep per day, it becomes much less relevant. It greatly reduces the risks and difficulties of securing a location to sleep. Even more so if it can be taken in 15m turns.

Personally I kept the 24 hours clock because it becomes easier for the players (and the GM) to know what time of the day it is without looking up the correspondence.

You may want to read up on metabolism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolism) because sleep and food don't really interact that way. (Notably, someone with a truly slow metabolism wouldn't get all of the available energy from the food they eat and would actually require more food or suffer reduced energy and begin losing weight.)

My main objective with this is actually providing variation on the needs for survival. I was loosely based on the idea that sleep deprivation has been shown to induce a need for greater energy intake for animals. I'm inclined to take liberties on this, because a player wouldn't be inclined to take a trait with no upside, and it doesn't really bring an interesting variation for the gameplay. I'd be grateful if other alternatives were offered, though.

Charisma loss from sleep is an interesting concept, but I'd argue that "growing irritability" varies a bit too much from person to person (or character to character) to force it upon them.

http://www.apa.org/topics/sleep/why.aspx?item=2

According to psychologist and sleep expert David F. Dinges, Ph.D., of the Division of Sleep and Chronobiology and Department of Psychiatry at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, irritability, moodiness and disinhibition are some of the first signs a person experiences from lack of sleep. If a sleep-deprived person doesn’t sleep after the initial signs, said Dinges, the person may then start to experience apathy, slowed speech and flattened emotional responses, impaired memory and an inability to be novel or multitask.

I wouldn't force the player to necessarily RP it, but the effects of sleep deprivation to one's demeanor and emotions are well documented. Just as other aspect of sleep, need, effects, it can vary from person to person, but it is still very consistent. On top of that, if my personal experience can be of any worth, I see people regularly who are less enthusiastic or confident due to lack of sleep. To me, that warrants a CHA penalty.

Even more because nearly all types of deprivation and poisoning come with penalties to SPECIAL such as END and AGI, but only the worst cases reach CHA, and mostly through the deplorable body state they cause, not even necessarily psychologically speaking. Sleep deprivation affects both psychological and physical aspects that could be associated with CHA and does so far sooner than other kinds of deprivation do. To me, it does make more sense than Fallout's suggestion to make CHR mostly affected by food deprivation instead.

[Kkat]

I like the idea, though you'll want to revise or remove the perk "All Night Long: You consider your END as 2 points higher in order to resist exhaustion or sleep deprivation; your survival rolls to overcome such a situation get a +4 too" if you implement it.

Good catch. If this is implimented, we will have to revisit the All Night Long perk. Shouldn't require much though. Maybe All Night Long: You consider your END as 2 points higher in order to resist exhaustion, and ignore END loss for sleep deprivation; your survival rolls to overcome such a situation get a +4 too

Also, how does this work with the optional 16 hour day rule that you use? EI changes to 12 hours and a 'normal' night of rest is 4 hours?

For a 16 hour day, I would change the EI to 12 hours. For what it matters, I would consider 4 hours a normal night of rest.

Sounds like it could work fairly well. Would be useful to work up a reference chart, though.

I'd hate to do that though, given how simple the formula is but how large the chart could become. How many iterations of the chart would be necessary for the point to get across?

Does the sleep hour to recover the SPECIAL add up to the normal needed sleep? Meaning a character who needs to sleep 4 hours will have to sleep 5 to recover a previous lost SPECIAL.

Recovery would start with the first hour of sleep. So four hours of sleep would allow you to recover from 64 hours awake (using the 24 hour day) or 48 hours awake (using the 16 hour day).