Alternate Core Documents

[Thanqol]

Honestly critical hits do not need any real changes, the game is really only very lethal at low levels when upper tier gear is around. Even in the Stalliongrad campaign were the usual enemies are all red encounters we still haven't had anyone die at all, only Red Button [with a 4 END and the lowest DT in the party by far!] has ever come all that close to death via hit point damage, and that was a starmetal bullet!

Neither Crits nor weapons need any sort of dramatic changes like this since the game is not that dangerous!

A well armoured, level 11 high endurance Unicorn can be one-shotted by the blast of a double barrelled shotgun battlesaddle. At mid to high levels no one ever misses.

I am all in favour of the critical hit damage reduction; I think it solves a lot of issues and opens up more interesting gameplay.

[Mathwyn]

A well armoured, level 11 high endurance Unicorn can be one-shotted by the blast of a double barrelled shotgun battlesaddle. At mid to high levels no one ever misses.

I am all in favour of the critical hit damage reduction; I think it solves a lot of issues and opens up more interesting gameplay.

I remember that one. The lethality of the system (and my willingness to fling high level/well armed threats at my players) is why I introduced fate points to avoid instant death. That was the only way the player survived a hit from a crit-focused dual wielding double-shotgun unicorn raider leader (built as an equal level NPC). 4*100+10d10 is crazy nasty.

I'm all for crit reduction too. At least there will be slightly less chance of important villians being one-shotted... I just hope we keep the math relatively simple.

[Zepheniah]

Ways to reduce critical hits:

• Only multiply the base damage and not the damage dice. (A weapon dealing 15+1d10 would have 15 base damage and would crit for 30+1d10)

• Only multiply the weapon damage sans damage bonuses. (better for shotguns, for example) (A weapon dealing 15+1d10 would deal 30+2d10, but and damage bonuses would apply only once, so with 3 ranks of Armed and Dangerous the damage would be 30+5d10 on a crit.)

• Have critical hits apply against double DT. Suggested in combination with the first suggestion. Makes Armor Piercing effects, DT and by extension defensive power more relevant, especially when taking into consideration how much damage low level weapons can do on a crit with some perks. (The Red Racer BB Gun comes to mind that will deal 15+12d10 [Avg: 81 damage] with 3 ranks of A&D and HWDDOTF, piercing power armor with ease. With the weakest ranged weapon in the game. When combined with the first suggestion and this one, it would deal a much more reasonable 15+4d10 damage against double DT.)

[Dance_Explosion]

A well armoured, level 11 high endurance Unicorn can be one-shotted by the blast of a double barrelled shotgun battlesaddle. At mid to high levels no one ever misses.

Well its a pity you are wrong. A double blast from that battle saddle will be two doses of 2x50+++++, which looks like 2x75 lets say for the average damage. that would be an average of about 300 damage in one go, however then we apply some one with armor on, a Armored character with say, 15DT will actually walk away with very little damage out of that. The thing to remember is that the Double Barreled shotgun has DT x3 like all shotguns, and fires 2 shots at once, so that is two [2] shots of 75 damage for both guns on the battle saddle, that has 3xDT to deal with. so then the net four [4] blasts of 75 damage each take 45DT to them. EACH. that means that your so called "one-shot" deal about 120 damage. which might be enough to kill a modestly ENDed pony of level 2-3. But a high END character with high DT for level 11? well that DT would be closer to 20, or even more! or they could even have the fairly cheap [500 caps!] salvaged power armor that would reduce the damage even more.

So... no, a more complicated change to crits does not need to be made.

And yes they COULD have shotgun surgeon, and the unicorn in question being shot COULD have buffed their DT to 35 with spirit of diamond, of be behind a shield. Or used a number of spell to raise DT very high when stacked up with armor.

[TyrannisUmbra]

A well armoured, level 11 high endurance Unicorn can be one-shotted by the blast of a double barrelled shotgun battlesaddle. At mid to high levels no one ever misses.

Well its a pity you are wrong. A double blast from that battle saddle will be two doses of 2x50+++++, which looks like 2x75 lets say for the average damage. that would be an average of about 300 damage in one go, however then we apply some one with armor on, a Armored character with say, 15DT will actually walk away with very little damage out of that. The thing to remember is that the Double Barreled shotgun has DT x3 like all shotguns, and fires 2 shots at once, so that is two [2] shots of 75 damage for both guns on the battle saddle, that has 3xDT to deal with. so then the net four [4] blasts of 75 damage each take 45DT to them. EACH. that means that your so called "one-shot" deal about 120 damage. which might be enough to kill a modestly ENDed pony of level 2-3. But a high END character with high DT for level 11? well that DT would be closer to 20, or even more! or they could even have the fairly cheap [500 caps!] salvaged power armor that would reduce the damage even more.

So... no, a more complicated change to crits does not need to be made.

And yes they COULD have shotgun surgeon, and the unicorn in question being shot COULD have buffed their DT to 35 with spirit of diamond, of be behind a shield. Or used a number of spell to raise DT very high when stacked up with armor.

~Lv10 only gives ~200HP at 9-10 END. And since crits double damage, that IS a oneshot, with DT factored in. Even without doubling, it's still one-round, which is just as bad.

[Dance_Explosion]

120 damage is not a one round effect, at that level at all, it is if two ponies try to waste you at level 10 with battle saddles armed with 4 T3 weapons, if that's happening maybe you need to ask you DM for forgiveness for running his cat over since he seems to have it out for you.

And that attack cost 50AP most characters wont be able to make another attack for much damage at all, and its almost impossible to make two attacks with the DBS in the same round.

Now if you want to really make like this is a big danger of happening, it would be done with something more like hunting rifles that deal 45++ and can easily be used to make two attacks in the same round with. And lets just say that they make a wild shot for a 3rd attack too since we are dealing with auto hits [for some reason all theoretical DM's make guys at level 10 to just kill party members it seems!] so we would be looking at about 55x6 damage, for 330 base, 15 DT reduces a net 90 for a massive 240 damage that would actually kill a player up to level 16 possibly unless they had a very high END.

But ultimately, at level 10 the DM could also shoot your character in the face with a anti-machine rifle [Like mine did]. the DM needs to balance how much damage he throws at his players.

Critical hits are, still, fine and if you want your big bad to survive to taunt the PC's another day, just build them as a Red threat monster and not like a PC that's an extra 100HP easy.

[Viewing_Glass]

Well, I had a pleasant and well-thought out post, but Dance Explosion beat me to it.

As far as lethality of the system goes...its very, very easy to kill anything built like a player character. Monsters are much harder to kill, as they should be. High DT, large HP pools, and a variety of immunities come to mind. Sure you can lower the critical damage, but that still won't stop a PC getting killed by an opponent with (insert weapon here).

As a side note, I have found the value of drugs to be much higher in late game as opposed to early game. Painkiller specifically comes to mind, as 20% DR, when stacked with a Zebra Elixer that gives 10% DR and salvaged Power Armor gives an impressive 40% DR. Even factoring in the damage of our Mysterious Hunting Rifle opponent, that DR will cause the 240 damage taken to drop to 144 damage...which gives you time to hide behind cover and down a healing potion before you murder his face off.

To Summarize:

Yes, the system is lethal. However, as you get further into the game, DR is greater than ALL.

[Viewing_Glass]

New Perk Suggestion:

Knight in Shining Armor

Requirements:

Level 8, 6 STR, 6 END
Ranks: 2

You know how to wear even the heaviest of armors with ease, and take less damage while wearing it to boot! Increase the DT of heavy armor you wear by 3 per rank of this perk. Should that armor provide a deficit, such as a penalty to agility, reduce that penalty by 1 (to a minimum of zero). This penalty reduction does not apply to Power Armor.

Let's make Heavy Armor a little more attractive, shall we?

[TyrannisUmbra]

120 damage is not a one round effect, at that level at all, it is if two ponies try to waste you at level 10 with battle saddles armed with 4 T3 weapons, if that's happening maybe you need to ask you DM for forgiveness for running his cat over since he seems to have it out for you.

And that attack cost 50AP most characters wont be able to make another attack for much damage at all, and its almost impossible to make two attacks with the DBS in the same round.

Now if you want to really make like this is a big danger of happening, it would be done with something more like hunting rifles that deal 45++ and can easily be used to make two attacks in the same round with. And lets just say that they make a wild shot for a 3rd attack too since we are dealing with auto hits [for some reason all theoretical DM's make guys at level 10 to just kill party members it seems!] so we would be looking at about 55x6 damage, for 330 base, 15 DT reduces a net 90 for a massive 240 damage that would actually kill a player up to level 16 possibly unless they had a very high END.

But ultimately, at level 10 the DM could also shoot your character in the face with a anti-machine rifle [Like mine did]. the DM needs to balance how much damage he throws at his players.

Critical hits are, still, fine and if you want your big bad to survive to taunt the PC's another day, just build them as a Red threat monster and not like a PC that's an extra 100HP easy.

The solution of "Well then the GM shouldn't use those weapons!" is a pretty terrible one, especially when it's the level appropriate weapons that are a problem. You pointed out yourself that a hunting rifle saddle is perfectly capable of crit-killing somepony of Lv10, and hunting rifles are only tier-2 weapons. Your examples don't even factor in one of the most important topics of current discussion -- the +d10 perks, which give a huge boost to the low-tier weapons, well beyond their intended damage range. 3 ranks of Armed and Dangerous more than doubles the average damage of a .22 pistol, and doubles the average damage of a 9mm -- 75 unmitigated damage per round jumps up to 150 from perks alone! Against a 15 DT target (WELL above what the weapon is intended to be able to reliably damage), it still manages to hit 75 a round. On a weapon that should be dealing no more than 10, or maybe 15 damage a round against that kind of target.

Yes, the system is lethal. However, as you get further into the game, DR is greater than ALL.

DR shouldn't be a necessity... and even salvaged power armor should fall under the "borderline unobtainable" category. Merchants aren't going to be selling something like that, unless you're Idolized with a leading faction, and even then...

Making comparisons against these 30DT 20% DR armors is like making weapon comparisons using a BEL. Nobody is ever going to use them in a realistic scenario, unless the party ends up fighting against or alongside a special enemy. Those weapons and armor are going to be used against the player, but players aren't going to be acquiring them realistically.

New Perk Suggestion:

Knight in Shining Armor

Requirements:

Level 8, 6 STR, 6 END
Ranks: 2

You know how to wear even the heaviest of armors with ease, and take less damage while wearing it to boot! Increase the DT of heavy armor you wear by 3 per rank of this perk. Should that armor provide a deficit, such as a penalty to agility, reduce that penalty by 1 (to a minimum of zero). This penalty reduction does not apply to Power Armor.

Let's make Heavy Armor a little more attractive, shall we?

I already mentioned my main concern on the IRC (The combination of stat penalty reduction and DT at the same time should be a higher level perk), but I /do/ like the idea of making heavy armors more attractive, especially since the majority of heavy armors are just medium armor levels of DT with a stat penalty attached.

[Viewing_Glass]

Hrm...alright, revised version of Knight in Shining Armor.

Knight in Shining Armor

Requirements:

Level 8, 6 STR, 6 END
Ranks: 3

You know how to wear even the heaviest of armors, minimizing the damage you take from all but the heaviest weapons! Increase the DT of heavy armor you wear by 3 per rank of this perk. Mastery: Additional 6 DT while wearing Heavy Armor.

That would improve Metal Armor to 24 DT, Reinforced Metal to 28, Guard Armors to 30, Salvaged Power Armor to 32, Unicorn Power Armor to 34, and Full Power Armor to an impressive 40 DT.