Alternate Core Documents

[Viewing_Glass]

Rules Considerations (Part 2)

I am very in favour of melee combat actions having a set additional cost instead of a multiplier to weapon AP. This is something we were already doing in Group 4 so our unarmed zebra wouldn't be punished for using AP 25 power hooves instead of AP 15 brass shoes.
I'm not sure about the change to Buck's effect but I wasn't too fond of it dealing double damage either so maybe a set amount of bonus damage? Buck getting more damage from moving before hand doesn't make sense to me though.

The biggest issue is if you set the unarmed maneuver's damage values to a flat number, you have to deal with the problem of DT. If Buck maneuver has to little flat damage, it just becomes better to make a bunch of dual-wield attacks after tripping (Especially considering most creatures seem to have a really good END). Too much and you have the problem of everyone bucking all the time.

I don't really see the issue with having the flat multiplier. I mean, if you want to buck with Power Hooves, you already need to have two of them (possibly even in the same condition). Dash is readily available, and its where Gladiator Pony really shines (in that it would allow a pony to buck with Power Hooves for only 60 AP).

[TyrannisUmbra]

As written, a Wild Swing can only be made if the character has had to use their AP to make move actions in order to attack at all. If you did not need to move in order to attack then you cannot Wild Swing. If you have already made an attack and do not need to move in order to make another then you cannot Wild Swing.

That's fairly problematic, especially given most weapons can fire past their intended range. For instance, if I'm just outside Long range with my Long range weapon (which can technically fire at Extreme range, just at severe penalty), does that mean if I move from Extreme range into Long range then I can't Wild Shot, given I could technically have shot him where I was standing? I totally hear you that that's the original intention of the ability, as that was my assumption before the Stalliongrad group corrected me, but it definitely could use a wording change.

Movement values have tripled since then so the original problem is already greatly reduced.

Given this, maybe removing Wild Shot from the game entirely would be appropriate? I'd say leave Wild Swing, as I still see the logic there and the wording can easily be tightened up in such a way to totally prevent abuse with melee weapons. Removing Wild Shot certainly would make for a cleaner ability and more clear-cut gameplay for ranged weapons.

I don't like the idea of removing Wild Shot. Maybe instead, take a page from the game's book and add a rule that moving and firing a ranged weapon in the same turn gives an accuracy penalty? Maybe even along with a new perk (Run&Gun!) that removes said penalty. And finally, allowing Wild Shots to be made no matter if you "needed" to move in the first place.

Or yknow, we could just double the penalties for ranged weapons, since that actually makes sense. Maybe even add Run&Gun as a perk to halve them? Sounds like a fun idea.

I'm not sure about the change to Buck's effect but I wasn't too fond of it dealing double damage either so maybe a set amount of bonus damage? Buck getting more damage from moving before hand doesn't make sense to me though.

The biggest issue is if you set the unarmed maneuver's damage values to a flat number, you have to deal with the problem of DT. If Buck maneuver has to little flat damage, it just becomes better to make a bunch of dual-wield attacks after tripping (Especially considering most creatures seem to have a really good END). Too much and you have the problem of everyone bucking all the time.

Buck /does/ hit with both hooves, after all. It makes sense to deal double base unarmed damage.

[Ilushia]

For Full-Auto and Semi-Auto fire the point of the accuracy bonuses is that putting lots of rounds into the air makes it more likely at least one (probably more!) will hit and deal damage to the target. If you fire 20 bullets in someone's general direction it's much more likely at least one will hit than if you fire just one bullet. Hence, accuracy bonus.

The idea of increasing Str requirements when burst/full auto firing is pretty good, I do like that.

In regards to critical hits, I'd be inclined to make Burst fire only apply critical hit to the first bullet, and Full Auto be incapable of scoring critical hits at all. When you're performing a spray-and-pray maneuver, even when quite skilled, you're not likely get high-precision hits. This also helps retain the idea that single-fire weapons are the best weapons for single-round damage, and puts the crit-rate boosting perks firmly in the 'sniper' side of the road.

Buck has has charge bonus because for some reason I thought that buck already had a charge bonus. Since it doesn't, disregard that part of the rules for it.

The range chart isn't nearly as math-y as you'd think, since it's all just multipliers of your Per score, it's not dramatically more complicated than a basic skill calculation.

[Rippedshadow]

To interject on the topic of burst and full auto...

What, specifically, is wrong with what's in place? Aside from the fact that high-skill characters benefit greatly, which is generally how it usually is? Personally, giving it an accuracy bonus seems somewhat awkward, and right now it appears to mirror automatic fire fairly well: you fire off several rounds, each shot has a different roll, if by some stroke of luck one hits, then there's your hit! Sure, streamlining it into one roll might be easier, but I've seen streamlining ideas rejected because rolling all those to-hit dice is considered "more fun".

On the flipside, making burst and fully automatic require more AP then a single shot sounds like a wonderful idea, especially since single firing with any weapon capable of burst-fire is completely pointless right now.

[TyrannisUmbra]

To interject on the topic of burst and full auto...

What, specifically, is wrong with what's in place? Aside from the fact that high-skill characters benefit greatly, which is generally how it usually is? Personally, giving it an accuracy bonus seems somewhat awkward, and right now it appears to mirror automatic fire fairly well: you fire off several rounds, each shot has a different roll, if by some stroke of luck one hits, then there's your hit! Sure, streamlining it into one roll might be easier, but I've seen streamlining ideas rejected because rolling all those to-hit dice is considered "more fun".

On the flipside, making burst and fully automatic require more AP then a single shot sounds like a wonderful idea, especially since single firing with any weapon capable of burst-fire is completely pointless right now.

The problem tends to be that against the majority of targets, using an automatic weapon on full-auto will deal stupid amounts of damage when accuracy isn't a factor. I did some math a while back in this topic regarding it, and the basic summary of the results was that an average automatic could kill anypony of appropriate level not above 20DT (ie, not wearing higher-quality heavy armor) in a single round if you don't have to worry about missing. On the higher end of the spectrum, a high-quality automatic could shred through even power armor and 30+ DT to kill a high-level character within two rounds, iirc. Since then, the weapons in question were nerfed, if memory serves.

For Full-Auto and Semi-Auto fire the point of the accuracy bonuses is that putting lots of rounds into the air makes it more likely at least one (probably more!) will hit and deal damage to the target. If you fire 20 bullets in someone's general direction it's much more likely at least one will hit than if you fire just one bullet. Hence, accuracy bonus.

...

The range chart isn't nearly as math-y as you'd think, since it's all just multipliers of your Per score, it's not dramatically more complicated than a basic skill calculation.

Yes, it's more likely that one will hit, but I still worry about it for balance reasons. It /does/ basically mean that for every +10% accuracy boost, you're giving them an extra guaranteed hit. I very much suggest making the accuracy boost only apply to the first shot, and that the calculation for the other shots not be affected by it.

And, the range might not actually be that mathy, but it "looks" confusing. I'm not really against it, just sort of saying.

[Kkat]

Correcting a minor oversight...
The basic trick Haul has been added to Pegasus Tricks.

[SilverlightPony]

I think this thread may as well be renamed from "Alternate Core Documents" to "New Core Documents" or some such. They're not really the alternate rules any more, now are they?

[Kkat]

Good point.

Rules Adjustments:

Clever Prancer: Somebody pointed out that Clever Prancer still had two ranks listed. Fixed that -- it's a single-rank perk now, as the revision intended.

Initiative: If two combatants roll the same total initative score, the combatant with the highest Perception goes first. If Perception scores are identical, the combatant with the highest Luck goes first. If both Perception and Luck are the same, combatants go simultaneously.

Jumping and Swimming: Jumping now has clarified AP costs and swimming now has rules.

Wild Shot/Strike: These actions are now listed separately with a bit of clarification on when they can be used.

Precise Shot/Strike: You can now spend up to (PER x 3) AP aiming, gaining a +1% to accuracy for each AP point spent. This can be done at the end of a turn, spending excess AP, in order to get an aimed shot at the beginning of the next turn.

Stun Damage: While Stun damage heals naturally in one hour, only healing that can heal magical energy damage can heal it faster.

Disarming: Unarmed weapons cannot be disarmed, and take a minute to strap on or remove.

Painkiller: Cost has been increased to 80 caps.

[Aqu]

While Stun damage heals naturally in one hour, only healing can can heal magical energy damage can heal it.

[Kkat]

Fixed.